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>>> I PULL THE COVERS BACK AND THAT'S WHEN I SAW. LILLY WAS SUCH A MESS. >> LILY WAS HIS BABY. RACHEL WAS HIS WIFE. HE SAYS ON A TELEPHONE CONVERSATION HE JUST DISCOVERED THEM DEAD. HE DESCRIBES HOW HE DISCOVERED THEM AND HE PROBABLY NEVER SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THAT CALL AT ALL. WHAT DID NEIL ENTWISTLE SAY TO THE COPS AND WHY DOES IT MATTER TO HIS CASE? YOU'RE FINDING OUT TODAY AS BANFIELD AND FORD TAKE YOU COURTSI COURTSIDE. >>> GOOD AFTERNOON. WELCOME TO BHF "BANFIELD & FORD: COURTSIDE." I'M ASHLEY BAN FRTD. JACK FORD HAS THE DAY OFF TODAY. IT WAS ONE OF THOSE DAYS WHERE EVERYONE WAS LYLEANT. SILENT EXCEPT FOR NEIL ENTWISTLE'S VOICE ON A PHONE CALL. SOMEONE TO KEPT HIM ON THE PHONE FOR TWO HOURS TALKING ABOUT WHY EXACTLY IT IS WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION ACROSS THE CONTINENTS. WHY ARE YOU IN ENGLAND? WHY AREN'T YOU HERE? AND WHAT ON EARTH HAPPENED THE DAY YOU SAY YOU DISCOVERED YOUR WIFE AND BABY DEAD? AND THEN FLEW ONE WAY, NO BAGGAGE, TO ENGLAND. IT IS UNBELIEVABLE STUFF, AND IT IS RIVETING AND THERE ARE A LOT OF INCONSISTENCIES WITH WHAT NEIL ENTWISTLE SAYS HAPPENED AND THE ACTUAL EVIDENCE IN THE CASE. ARE YOU WONDERING ABOUT THIS CASE? WELL, BETH KARRAS IS HERE TO GET YOU CAUGHT UP ON ALL THE DETAILS. >> WE BELIEVE POSSIBLY THAT THIS WAS INTENDED TO BE A MURDER/SUICIDE, BUT WE CANNOT CONFIRM THAT. OBVIOUSLY THE MURDER WAS EFFECTED. THE SUICIDE WAS NOT. >> ON A QUIET WINTER NIGHT OUTSIDE OF BOSTON, THE POLICE WERE CALLED TO THE HOUSE OF NEIL AND RACHEL ENTWISTLE. THE FAMILY WAS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. POLICE DID A CURSORY SEARCH OF THE HOUSE TWICE BEFORE MAKING A GRUESOME DISCOVERY. >> NEIL ENTWISTLE, WITH A FIREARM THAT WE BELIEVE HE HAD SECURED AT SOME TIME BEFORE THAT, SHOT RACHEL ENTWISTLE IN THE HEAD. THEN PROCEEDED TO SHOOT BABY LILLIAN, WHO WAS LYING ON THE BED NEXT TO HER MOTHER. >> THE ONE THING THEY COULD NOT FIND WAS NEIL ENTWISTLE. MASSACHUSETTS INVESTIGATORS LEARNED HE HAD RETURNED TO HIS PARENTS' HOME OUTSIDE OF LONDON. >> NEIL ENTWISTLE WAS ARRESTED THIS MORNING, JUST BEFORE NOON LONDON TIME. JUST BEFORE 7:00 OUR TIME. ON TWO CHARGES OF MURDER. THE MURDER OF RACHEL ENTWISTLE AND LILIAL ENTWISTLE. >> ENTWISTLE RETURNED TO THE UNITED STATES TO FACE THE CHARGES. SPECULATION IS THAT FINANCIAL DIFFICULTY MAY HAVE PLAYED A ROLE IN THE MURDERS. THE ARRAIGNMENT IN A MASSACHUSETTS COURTROOM ATTRACTED NATIONAL MEDIA ATTENTION. >> IT'S CLEAR NOW THAT MR. ENTWISTLE HAS BEEN FORMALLY CHARGED IN THIS COURT WITH TWO CRIMES OF MURDER. BY HIS PLEA OF NOT GUILTY, THE PROCESS THAT WE THINK IS IMPORTANT IN THIS COUNTRY OF JUSTICE AND FAIRNESS IS UNDER WAY. >> DESPITE HIS PLEA OF NOT GUILTY, SIX WEEKS AFTER HIS ARRAIGNMENT, A GRAND JURY INDICTED ENTWISTLE FOR THE MURDERS OF HIS WIFE AND BABY DAUGHTER. >> I AM GOING TO VIGOROUSLY, AGGRESSIVELY, AND SUCCESSFULLY DEFEND MR. ENTWISTLE. I AM GOING TO DO THAT IN THE ONLY ARENA THAT COUNTS, AND THAT'S THE COURTROOM. >> ALL RIGHT. WELL, THAT WAS ELLIOTT WINESTAIN SAIGH THAT THE ARENA THAT COUNTS IS THE COURTROOM, AND THAT COURTROOM JUST HEARD BOMBSHELL STUFF. NOT THAT WE WEREN'T EXPECTING IT. WE KNEW THAT TROOPER MANNING HAD HAD A CONVERSATION WITH NEIL ENTWISTLE JUST DAYS AFTER THE CRIME. AND THERE WERE A LOT OF INCONSISTENCIES IN WHAT HE SAID TO THE TROOPER. WHAT HE SAID TO HIS PARENTS. WHAT HE SAID TO HIS IN-LAWS AND WHAT HE WAS ACTUALLY DOING AND WHAT THE EVIDENCE SHOWED. JOINING US LIVE FROM OUTSIDE THE COURTROOM, BETH KARRAS IS STANDING BY LIVE. BESIDE HER, IT'S BARRY NOLAN. HE'S REPORTED ON HIGH-PROFILE TRIALS BEFORE FOR TWO DECADES NOW, INCLUDING O.J. SIMPSON, PAMELA MARK, AND THE LIST GOES ON. HE'S GOING TO JOIN US IN A MOMENT. ALSO WITH ME HERE TODAY IS REMI SPENCER, A FORMER PROSECUTOR. REMI, WELCOME. WELCOME EVERYBODY. BETH, LET ME START WITH YOU. I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO TAKE MY EARS AND EYES OFF OF THE SCREEN WHILE LISTENING. I THINK, YOU KNOW, REALLY FOR ONE OF THE FIRST TIMES TO THE VOICE, CLEAR VOICE, OF NEIL ENTWISTLE DESCRIBING HIS VERSION OF EVENTS. MAYBE YOU SHOULD SET THE STAGE FOR ANY VIEWERS JUST JOINING US RIGHT NOW. >> WELL, THIS WAS A TELEPHONE CALL PLACED BY SERGEANT MANNING. HE WAS A TROOPER AT THE TIME. ON MONDAY MORNING, JANUARY 23rd. IT WAS ABOUT MID-DAY, LATE MORNING, MID-DAY. MAYBE EVEN EARLY AFTERNOON. HE CALLED NEIL ENTWISTLE AFTER OBTAINING A TELEPHONE NUMBER FROM ENTWISTLE'S FATHER. NOW, THE MURDERS OCCURRED ON JANUARY 20th. AND ENTWISTLE FLED TO ENGLAND ON JANUARY 21st. HE VOLUNTARILY SPOKE FOR TWO HOURS TO TROOPER MANNING. THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME HE HAS SPOKEN ABOUT WHAT HE DISCOVERED AT HOME, HE SAYS, AFTER DOING ERRANDS AND FINDING HIS WIFE AND DAUGHTER AND WHY HE LEFT. HE TOLD FRIENDS, HE SPOKE WITH JOE, RACHEL'S STEP-FATHER. HE TOLD HIM WHAT WAS GOING ON. BUT THIS IS THE FIRST DETAILED INTERROGATION REALLY, ALTHOUGH IT WAS FRIENDLY. I KNOW THAT MANNING DIDN'T WANT TO RUN THE RISK THAT -- I'M SURE HE DIDN'T WANT TO RUN THE RISK THAT ENTWISTLE WAS GOING TO HANG UP THE PHONE. AND FOR TWO HOURS, THE JURORS HEARD NEIL ENTWISTLE EXPLAIN HIS BEHAVIOR ON JANUARY 20th AND 21st WHEN HE LEFT THE ENGLAND. AND THEN SERGEANT MANNING GO BACK OVER THE STORY AND ASK HIM QUESTIONS, REPEATEDLY ASKING HIM HIS REASON, HIS JUSTIFICATION FOR NOT CALLING 911. NOT CALLING ANYONE BEFORE LEAVING THE COUNTRY. NOT EVEN HIS PARENTS TO TELL THEM THAT HE WAS COMING. HE UNDERSTOOD THE 911 EMERGENCY LINE TO SUMMON HELP. AND HE SAYS HE CONSIDERED KILLING HIMSELF TO BE WITH HIS FAMILY. YET AS TROOPER -- SERGEANT MANNING SAID, YOU DID EVERYTHING YOU COULD NOT TO BE WITH THEM. >> RIGHT. THAT'S WHERE -- IF, YOU KNOW, YOU WANTED TO BE WITH THEM AND KILL YOURSELF TO BE WITH THEM, YOU TOOK A WHOLE LOT OF STEPS NOT TO BE WITH THEM. AND BEFORE YOU CARRY ON ON THAT, THERE IS THIS DETAIL THAT REALLY STUCK WITH ME. AND THAT WAS HIS REASON AS TO WHY HE DIDN'T CALL 911. WHY HE DIDN'T CALL ANYONE OR DO ANYTHING UPON FINDING HIS FAMILY MASSACRED. LET'S PLAY THAT OUT AND THEN YOU AND I, BETH, WILL TALK ON THE LOOKING BACK ON IT, I DON'T KNOW WHY I DID THINGS THE WAY THAT I DID. >> BETH, THAT SEEMED TO BE THE ANSWER THAT HE HAD FOR A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS THAT SEEMINGLY DIDN'T HAVE ANSWERS, AND THAT WAS UM, LONG PAUSE, I DON'T KNOW WHY I DID WHAT I DID. AND THERE WERE JUST NUMEROUS OTHER EXAMPLES OF INCONSISTENCIES. BUT YOU KNOW THE EVIDENCE IN THE CASE. AND AS I LISTENED TO THE WAY NEIL DESCRIBED FINDING THE BODIES, I WAS LIS FRNG THE INCONSISTENCIES AND I WAS SURPRISED AT HOW SIMILAR HIS STORY ACTUALLY SOUNDS TO THE ACTUAL EVIDENCE AS OPPOSED TO HOW DIFFERENT I WAS EXPECTING IT WOULD BE. FOR INSTANCE, BETH, HE DID NOT SAY THE BED WAS COVERED IN BLOOD. THERE WAS BLOOD EVERYWHERE. DESCRIBE WHAT IT WAS RIGHT NOW THAT HE SAID HE SAW AND HOW THAT ACTUALLY MATCHES UP WITH THE EVIDENCE. >> IT MATCHES UP A LITTLE BIT, ASHLEY. IT DOES MATCH UP MAYBE EVEN IN A LARGE PART, BUT THERE ARE ISSUES. HE SAYS WHEN HE CALLED OUT AND DIDN'T HEAR ANYONE AND CHECKED THE BABY'S ROOM AND THE BABY WASN'T IN THE CRIB, HE GOES IN THE MASTER BEDROOM AND HE SEES LILY AND SHE'S HALF COVERED. NOT LILY. I MEAN RACHEL. SHE'S HALF COVERED. HE DIDN'T SEE ANY BLOOD OR DETECT A HEAD WOUND. AND THAT'S TRUE. NOBODY AT THE SCENE SAW THAT. THAT IS CONSISTENT. HE SAID HE SAW LILY WHEN HE DREW THE REST OF THE COVERS BACK. OFF OF RACHEL'S BODY. AND LILY HAD WHAT APPEARED TO BE BLOOD AND BUBBLING OUT OF HER NOSE. THAT'S TRUE. THE BABY WASN'T BRUISED. WHEN FOUND TWO OR THREE DAYS LATER, BUT SHE APPEARED BRUISED. THAT WAS DECOMPOSITION AND THE BLOOD COMING OUT OF HER. HE SAW THAT LILY HAD BEEN SHOT. HE SAW THE HOLE IN HER CHEST. THERE'S THE PROBLEM. >> OH, YEAH. >> WHEN RACHEL AND LILY WERE FOUND, RACHEL'S ARM IS OVER THE BABY COVERING THE BULLET HOLE IN THE CHEST. >> RIGHT. SO HE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO -- RIGHT. LET ME READ SOMETHING HERE. IT'S GENTLY TRIBED, SO WE'LL TAKE LIBERTY HERE UNTIL WE GET THE ACTUAL TRANSCRIPT, BUT THIS IS THE QUESTION. DID YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO RACHEL AND LILLIAN? YOU MEAN AFTER BEING SHOT? I SAW IT ON LILY. THERE WAS LIKE A HOLE. BURN MARK HOLE ON HER CHEST. ON YOUR WIFE? I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING. AND HE STARTS TO CRY. THERE WAS JUST SO MUCH BLOOD AROUND LILY. THE TOP HALF JUST SO MUCH KIND OF ON HER MOUTH AND CHEST. RACHEL HAD GOT HER ARM ACROSS HER, BUT I DIDN'T -- DID YOU MOVE THE ARM? NO. I WAS KIND OF CLOSE TOUCHING THE BEG. DO YOU KNOW IF THEY WERE BREATHING? NO, I JUST -- NO. LEAVE RIGHT AWAY? UM, NOT LONG. I MEAN, YEAH,. THAT'S PRETTY TELLING STUFF. SOME OF IT, AS YOU SAID, BETH, DOES MATCH THE EVIDENCE. BUT THE WAS SO MUCH BLOOD ON LILY. THERE WAS A LOT OF BLOOD UNDERNEATH LILY AS WE'VE SEEN EVIDENCED FROM THE STAND, BUT NOT SO MUCH ON THE TOP OF LILY. >> CORRECT. BECAUSE LILY IS BASICALLY ON HER BACK AND THAT HOLE GOING FRONT TO BACK IS TRAINING OUT OF HER. LILY'S BLAD IS ON HER MOTHER'S CHEST AND ON HER BACK. ANOTHER THING, A LOT OF TIMES DEFENDANTS WHEN THEY'RE INTERROGATED, AND THIS HAS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE, THEY WILL ADMIT WHAT THEY CAN, DENY WHAT THEY MUST. HE IS GOING TO ADMIT THINGS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT THE POLICE FOUND AT THE CRIME SCENE BECAUSE THERE'S NO REASON NOT TO. HE KNOWS THE POLICE HAVE BEEN THERE, BUT HE HAS TO DENY WHAT HE MUST. I MEAN, HE NEVER -- AS MUCH AS MANNING TRIED TO BREAK HIM AND GET HIM TO ADMIT THAT HE KILLED HIS FAMILY AND THAT'S WHY HE WANTED TO KILL HIMSELF, HE NEV DID BREAK HIM. AND ENTWISTLE ALWAYS DENIED WHAT HE MUST. HE DENIED THAT HE KILLED HIS FAMILY. HE SAID HE LEFT THE HOUSE PRETTY SHORT ORDER, BUT HE DOESN'T EVER TIME A GIVE PERIOD. IF YOU BELIEVE NEIL ENTWISTLE'S STATEMENT THAT HE FOUND HIS FAMILY AT 11:00, HE OR SOMEONE SON THE LAPTOP AN HOUR AND A HALF LATER AND THAT'S NOT SHORT ORDER. >> I DON'T CARE WHAT HE WAS SEARCHING FOR ON THE LAPTOP AN HOUR AND A HALF AFTER HIS FAMILY WAS FOUND MURDERED. I DON'T CARE IF HE WAS SEARCHING FOR FLIGHTS. I DON'T CARE WHAT IT WAS. NOBODY WHO IS IN THE CONDITION THAT MR. ENTWISTLE SAYS HE WAS IN UPON FINDING HIS FAMILY DEAD WOULD THINK, NOW, LET ME SIT DOWN CALMLY AND START LOOKING FOR MY E-MAIL, MY OUTLOOK E-MAIL. IT JUST DOESN'T MEASURE UP. AND THE OTHER THING WAS, BETH, I THOUGHT THIS REALLY STOOD OUT. I DON'T KNOW THAT I SAW AS MUCH OF THIS IN PRETRIAL MOTIONS, BUT HE NEVER CHECKED FOR VITALS. HE NEVER TOUCHED THE BODIES. HE DIDN'T CHECK TO SEE IF THEY WERE BREATHING. HE HAD NO IDEA HOW LONG THEY'D BEEN THERE. BUT IT WASN'T LONG BECAUSE HE SAYS HE WAS ONLY OUT FOR A COUPLE OFFICIAL HOURS. >> YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. HE DID NOT CHECK FOR VITALS. HE DID NOT CALL THE POLICE. HE SAID HE DIDN'T KNOW THE NUMBER. MAYBE HE KNEW THE NUMBER TO THE HOME AND NOT TO THEIR OFFICES. HE COULDN'T REMEMBER FOR -- WHERE PRISCILLA LIVED. NORMALLY THE KEY TO THE HOUSE IS ON THEIR CAR KEY RING, BUT IT WASN'T ON IT THAT DAY. WE HAVE NOT HEARD THAT THE SECOND SET OF KEYS INSIDE THE BMW IS THE NEIGHBOR'S SET OF KEYS. I HAVE LEAPED TO THAT CONCLUSION BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS THE SECOND SET. TODAY IS THE FIRST TIME I HEARD -- AND IF THERE'S TRUTH TO WHAT NEIL ENTWISTLE SAYS. BUT IT'S THE FIRST TIME I HEARD THAT THE HOUSE KEY WAS KEPT ON THE KEY RING, IF THAT'S THE TRUTH. I DON'T KNOW. >> I'M DIGGING THROUGH MY EXTRAORDINARILY THICK FILE BECAUSE I SEEM TO RECALL, BETH, THAT THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOMETHING MENTIONED IN TROOPER MANNING'S -- WAS IT TROOPER MANNING'S AFFIDAVIT FOR THE SEARCH WARRANT? DO YOU REMEMBER? >> ABOUT THE KEYS? >> YEAH. I THOUGHT THERE WAS DETAIL ABOUT THE KEYS IN THAT BMW ALONG WITH THE BMW KEYS. >> YE, YES, YES, BUT DOES THE JURY KNOW THAT? >> OKAY. BUT IF THAT'S IN AN AFFIDAVIT, THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN'T FIND OUT ABOUT? IS THAT NOT ALLOWED IN? >> IT JUST MIGHT HAVE BEEN AN OVERSIGHT THAT THE D.A. MAY HAVE THOUGHT HE ELICITED THE TESTIMONY OR CHOSE NOT TO. THE JURY CAN ONLY DECIDE BASED ON THE EVIDENCE THAT'S BEFORE THEM. >> OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING ELSE. I DON'T KNOW IF I MISHEARD THIS AND I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY PICKED UP ON IT. THERE WAS MUCH MADE, BY THE WAY, OF NEIL'S SLIP OF THE TONGUE WHEN HE SAID I JUST BURIED THEM THE WAY I LEFT THEM OR THAT I FOUND THEM. THERE WAS SO MUCH MADE OF THAT. SOMEWHERE AROUND 11:15 THIS MORNING, HE WAS TALKING ON THE TELEPHONE, YOU KNOW, IN COURT TO TROOPER MANNING AND HE SAID TO SERGEANT MANNING ON THE PHONE Y WAS ON MY WAY TO THE NEIGHBORS BECAUSE I KNEW THEY HAVE GUNS AND I WANTED TO FINISH -- I WANTED TO END IT ALL. WHAT? I WANTED TO FINISH? I DON'T KNOW IF I'M READING INTO THIS, BUT I EXPECTED HE WAS ABOUT TO SAY FINISH THE JOB. DID ANYONE PICK UP ON THAT OR DID I HEAR THINGS? >> YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T PICK UP ON THAT. THAT'S A GOOD CATCH. I DON'T KNOW IF MICHAEL FABRY WILL EMPHASIZE THAT IN THE END. THERE'S NO GREATER MIND THAN THE COLLECTIVE MIND OF 12 JURORS. I'M SURE THAT SOMEONE ON THAT JUROR -- I'M SURE THAT ONE OF THOSE 16 CAUGHT THAT. >> ALL RIGHT. AND YOU KNOW WHAT? I'M GOING TO SAY ONCE AGAIN I MAY HAVE BEEN HEARING THINGS. MY OFFICE IS BUSY, PHONES RING A LOT. I MAY HAVE BEEN HEARING THINGS, BUT IT REALLY STOOD OUT TO ME. WE'RE GOING TO PULL SOME OF THESE TAPES AND GO BACK OVER THEM. THEY WERE JUST FINISHING UP AS YOU WERE COMING ON AIR. YOU ARE TALKING TO US BECAUSE COURT IS IN RECESS RIGHT NOW. THEY'RE NOT MISSING ANY TESTIMONY WHILE YOU DEBRIEF US. BETH, TAKE FIVE IF YOU WILL. AND EVERYONE WILL KNOW THIS, THAT WHEN YOU COME BACK YOU'LL HEAR FOR YOURSELF SOME OF THE REAL CHOICE MOMENTS OF THAT TWO-HOUR-LONG CONVERSATION. FREE CONVERSATION. HE OFFERED IT UP. ENTWISTLE SPEAKS. PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HAVE. I KNOW HIS LAWYERS WISH HE DIDN'T. BUT YOU'LL HEAR WHAT HE SAID STRAIGHT FROM HIS MOUTH. >>> AND THAT -- AND THIS WHOLE TIME NOW, YOU KNEW YOUR WIFE WAS IN THE BED, BUT DID YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO HER? >> YOU MEAN AFTER BEING SHOT? >> IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED? >> THAT'S WHEN I -- I THINK -- I MEAN, I SAW IT ON LILY. >> AND WHERE DID YOU SEE IT ON LILY? >> KIND OF ON HER -- ON THE CHEST. >> AND WHAT DID YOU SEE? >> LIKE A HOLE. >> YEAH, OKAY. SO JUST TWO DAYS AFTER ARRIVING IN ENGLAND, FLEEING THE SCENE, FINDING YOUR FAMILY MASSACRED, YOU TELL THE POLICE THAT YOU KNEW THEY WERE SHOT. BECAUSE YOU COULD SEE THE HOLE. ON YOUR BABY'S CHEST. THAT'S FUNNY BECAUSE MOST OF THE INVESTIGATORS ALL SAID NOBODY KNEW THEY WERE SHOT UNTIL THAW MOVED THE BODIES AND ACTUALLY THEN DISCOVERED THE HOLE UNDERNEATH MOMMY'S ARM. SO IF YOU DIDN'T TOUCH THE BODIES, NEIL, HOW COULD YOU HAVE KNOWN THEY WERE SHOT? HOW COULD YOU HAVE KNOWN THERE WAS A HOLE IN YOUR BABY'S CHEST? I THINK, CALL ME CRAZY. I'M NOT A LAWYER, BUT I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO BE BIG ISSUES WHEN THEY GET BACK. THEY'VE TAKEN A BRIEF BREAK. BUT GUESS WHAT. MY TEAM HEARD WHAT I SAID TO BETH IN THE LAST BLOCK AND GOT ME THIS. CAN YOU READ IT? I DIDN'T THINK YOU'D BE ABLE TO SO WE'RE GOING TO PLAY IT INSIDE. THIS IS THE CONVERSATION YOU'VE BEEN HEARING ABOUT, THIS CONVERSATION WHERE TROOPER BOB MANNING IS HAVING A NICE CONVERSATION WITH NEIL ENTWISTLE ABOUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED UPON FINDING HIS DAUGHTER AND WIFE DEAD. AND WHAT HE DID AFTER THAT. REMEMBER I SUGGESTED I THOUGHT I SWORE I COULD HAVE HEARD HIM SAY, "I WANTED A GUN BECAUSE I WANTED TO FINISH -- I MEAN, I WANTED TO MAYBE KILL MYSELF." I'M PARAPHRASING. WE FOUND IT. SO LET'S ALL OF US LISTEN TO IT TOGETHER AGAIN AND LISTEN FOR THE CLUE. LET'S SEE IF I MADE A MISTAKE. WE CAN ALL DO HUH-UH. >> AND THEN I JUST FELT LOST. >> I KNOW MOST OF MY COLLEAGUES WILL DISAGREE ME. BUT I'M NOT CRAZY. I AM NOT CRAZY. I HEARD IT. AND I JUST HEARD IT A SECOND TIME AND I KNOW Y'ALL HEARD IT RIGHT ALONG WITH ME. BARRY NOLAN, I KNOW YOU HEARD IT, TOO. I WENT TO THE HOUSE, I KNOW THEY HAD GUNS. I WAS GOING TO FINISH -- UH, UH. DID YOU HEAR IT? >> I HEARD IT. AND TO PARAPHRASE, I BELIEVE IT WAS FREUD THAT SAID THAT SOMETIMES A CIGAR IS JUST A SLIP AND A SLIP IS JUST A SLIP, BUT AT THE SAME TIME YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HE SAYS HE'S GOING TO KILL HIMSELF BECAUSE HE KNOWS THERE'S GUNS OVER THERE. HE GETS THERE AND DOESN'T HAVE THE KEY. WELL, YOU MIGHT BE WILLING TO KILL YOURSELF WITH A GUN, BUT YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO BREAK A WINDOW. >> RIGHT. EXACTLY. >> NOBODY KNOWS HOW THEY'RE GOING TO BEHAVE IN A CRISIS OR AN EMERGENCY. YOU REALLY CAN'T PREDICT IT, BUT HIS DESCRIPTION OF HIS BEHAVIOR AFTER DISCOVERING WHAT HE SAYS WAS A MURDER JUST IS SO PREPOSTEROUS AND SO FAR-FETCHED THAT REALLY NOBODY IS GOING TO BELIEVE THIS. I MEAN, HE GOES -- >> THAT'S WHY YOU'RE A GREAT GUEST ON THIS SHOW BECAUSE YOU'RE A JOURNALIST AND JOURNALISTS THINK DIFFERENTLY THAN LAWYERS AND JURZER DO. YOU CAN CUT THROUGH THE CRAP. WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO THE MEAT OF THIS CASE, WHAT DOES THIS CASE SAY TO YOU? >> WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THEY SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON YESTERDAY WAS TRYING TO ESTABLISH A PLAUSIBLE OTHER EXPLANATION BESIDES NEIL ENTWISTLE KILLED HIS WIFE AND DAUGHTER. AND THEY TRIED TO SUGGEST THAT RACHEL HAD COMMITTED A MURDER/SUICIDE. I SUSPECT A LOT OF THE JURORS DROVE HOME TRYING TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY HOW YOU DO THAT BECAUSE THE BULLET THAT WENT IN HER HEAD WENT IN JUST ABOVE THE HAIRLINE, PAINTING DOWNWARD AND TO THE BACK AND IT WAS A TARGET PISTOL WITH A SIX-INCH BARREL, SO JURORS WERE DRIVING HOME YESTERDAY TRYING TO GO, NO. I -- >> I GET YOU. I'M SEEING THIS BEAUTIFUL IMAGE OF YOU. YOU'RE ACTING IT OUT SO PERFECTLY. THEY DID SAY AROUND 18 INCHES AWAY. IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE, YOU KNOW. SHE'S STILL HOLDING ON TO THE BABY, RIGHT? IF SHE'S ALREADY SHOT THE BABY AND SHE'S GOT THE BULLET FROM THE BABY IN HER, AND I KNOW THAT WOULD HURT, SHE'S DOING THIS INCREDIBLE JIM NESTIC FEAT. >> BUT THEN TODAY IN NEIL ENTWISTLE'S DESCRIPTION OF THIS CRIME SCENE, HE DESCRIBES THIS COMING INTO THE SCENE. NOWHERE DOES HE MENTION, AND THERE WAS A GUN THERE IN HER HAND AND I REALIZED SHE'D COMMITTED SUICIDE. NEIL ENTWISTLE'S DESCRIPTION OF THE CRIME SCENE, WHICH COMPORTS WITH THE POLICE DESCRIPTION, DOESN'T HAVE A WEAPON THERE. SO NEIL ENTWISTLE REALLY ISN'T AS GOOD A LIAR AS O.J. SIMPSON. >> OH, WE ALWAYS GET AN O.J. REFERENCE IN AND YOU'RE GREAT AT DOING THIS, TOO. WE ACTUALLY HAVE O.J. COMING UP IN THIS SHOW. NOT O.J. HIMSELF, BUT HIS CASE WELL BE ON TODAY. THERE'S ANOTHER STATUS HEARING, AND THERE'S REALLY GOOD STUFF. WE FOUND THE TRANSCRIPT, FOLKS. THE TRANSCRIPT OF ONE OF THE TAPES THAT'S BEING BROUGHT INTO THIS CASE WHERE O.J. ACTUALLY MENTIONS A GUN. HE USES THE EUPHEMISM "A PIECE." THAT'S COMING UP IN JUST A MOMENT. I'M GOING TO SQUEEZE IN A VERY QUICK BREAK. WE'LL BE BACK IN A MOMENT. THERE'S MORE TAPE FROM NEIL ENTWISTLE COMING UP. SOME OF THE CHOICE BITS AND PIECES OF WHAT HE TOLD THIS TROOPER. AND THEN THIS MAN. YES, FOLKS. WE HAVE THE TAPE. WE'VE GOT THE PROOF. WE'VE GOT THE TRANSCRIPT. AND IT'S BEING TALKED ABOUT IN COURT TODAY. WOULDN'T YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT ALL OF THOSE PROSPECTIVE JURORS ARE BEING ASKED BEFORE THEY GET TO SIT ON THIS CASE? WE'VE GOT THE QUESTIONS. >>> OFFICIALLY THE "B" STORY, FOLKS, BUT A HEARING IS TAKING PLACE IN LAS VEGAS CONCERNING THE O.J. SIMPSON CASE. SIMPSON HIS TWO CO-Ds ARE ACCUSED OF SEIZING MEMORABILIA LAST YEAR FROM TWO MEN. THEY FACE LIFE IN PRISON WITHOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE. SO, YES, THIS IS SERIOUS. TODAY THE COURT WILL ADDRESS THE ATTEMPT BY SIMPSON'S CO-DEFENDANTS TO BE TRIED SEPARATELY, SEVERED FROM ALL OF THIS, IF YOU WILL. JOINING US NOW LIVE FROM THE LAS VEGAS COURT IS JEAN CASARAS WHO KNOWS A LOT MORE ABOUT THIS THAN ANYBODY EXCEPT FOR MAYBE THE LAWYERS ON THIS CASE. ALL RIGHT. LET'S START WITH THE SIMPLE PART OF THIS. WHEN PEOPLE HEAR ABOUT THIS CASE, A WHOLE CLOUD OF CONFUSION COMES OVER THEM. THEY WONDER WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT AGAIN AND WHO ARE ALL OF THESE PLAYERS AND WHY DO WE KEEP GOING BACK AND FORTH TO COURT BUT THERE'S NO TRIAL? SO LET'S TRY TO START WITH THE SIMPLE PART. WHAT ARE WE DOING TODAY? >> WELL, THIS IS A STATUS CHECK. THE JUDGE IS REQUIRING MONTHLY STATUS CHECKS BECAUSE THE TRIAL IS GOING TO BEGIN IN SEPTEMBER. SHE WANTS NO STONE LEFT UNTURNED. SO YOU JUST DON'T HAVE A LOT OF HOUSEKEEPING MATTERS. ALONG THE WAY, YOU HAVE MOTIONS. TODAY THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK AT A RENEWED MOTION FOR SEVERANCE. THERE WAS ALREADY ONE BEFORE' CO-DEFENDANTS ARE DOING IT AGAIN BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE IT'S SO CRITICAL THAT THEY GET SEVERED AND HAVE SEPARATE TRIALS FROM O.J. SIMPSON. WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT A DEPOSITION THAT THE PROSECUTION WANTS TO TAKE OF AN FBI AGENT THAT WAS RESPONSIBILITY FOR ENHANCING MUCH OF THE VIDEO OR THE AUDIO THAT WILL BE USED IN THIS TRIAL. THEN THERE'S JURY QUESTIONS, PROPOSED QUESTIONNAIRE QUESTIONS. THE SIDES JUST AREN'T AGREEING OIS THIS. >> OKAY. LET'S START WITH THE SEVERANCE THING. BECAUSE THEY DO MAKE SOME PRETTY GOOD ARGUMENTS IN THE MOTIONS AS TO WHY -- I THINK IT'S MR. EHRLICH'S MOTION AND I THINK MR. STEWART WANTS TO BE LUMPED INTO IT AS WELL. BUT THEY MAKE A LOT OF ARGUMENTS ABOUT BEING ABLE TO CROSS-EXAMINE O.J. SIMPSON WITH REGARD TO A CONVERSATION HE HAD ABOUT MR. EHRLICH, WHERE MR. EHRLICH WASN'T PRESENT. BUT IF O.J. SIMPSON ONE OF THE DEFENDANTS, HE HAS A RIGHT NOT TO TESTIFY. SO I'M NOT THE LAWYER, BUT THAT SOUNDS LEGITIMATE. >> THAT'S RIGHT. THERE ARE CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES IN THIS CASE. IT'S BASED ON THE CASE OF BRU N BRUTON, A U.S. SUPREME COURT CASE, SAYING THAT BECAUSE THEY'RE CO-DEFENDS, THEY WILL NOT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CROSS-EXAMINE ON THINGS THAT COME IN. AND SO BECAUSE OF THAT, THEY ARE SEVERELY PREJUDICED, THAT THEY WILL NOT GET A FAIR TRIAL IF THEY'RE TRIED WITH THE OTHER CO-DEFENDANTS. NOW, WE'VE HEARD THE RESPONSE FROM THE JUDGE TO ALL OF THAT IN PREVIOUS HEARINGS. SHE SAYS WE'LL JUST BE VERY CAREFUL IN WHAT COMES INTO THIS CASE. >> I'M NOT GOING TO ASK YOU THIS NEXT QUESTION BECAUSE I THINK I ANSWERED IT MYSELF. AND THAT WAS, WOW, HOW CAN'T IT BE PREJUDICEAL TO BE TIED TO A GUY LIKE O.J. SIMPSON? THAT'S REALLY UNFAIR IF YOU'RE JOE NOBODY AND YOU GET LUMPED IN WITH O.J. AND THEN I THOUGHT, WAIT A SECOND. HOW UNFAIR IS IT IF THIS GUY CLEARED HIMSELF ON A REALLY BAD DOUBLE MURDER THAT EVERYBODY THOUGHT HE'D BE OBVIOUSLY FOUND GUILTY FOR. HAS THAT ARGUMENT BEEN MADE IN COURT WITH REGARD TO WHY IT'S ACTUALLY A PLUS OR A MINUS TO BE TIED TO A GUY LIKE O.J.? >> I DON'T THINK THE PLUS ARGUMENT HAS BEEN HAD IN COURT, THAT THIS IS SOMEONE, O.J. SIMPSON, THAT DOES NOT HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD. THE SPILL-OVERS COULD BE GOOD FOR THE CO-DEFENDANTS. THE ARGUMENT WE'VE HEARD IS THE OPPOSITE ONE. PREJUDICES OR BIASES OR THE FEELING THAT A JUROR MAY HAVE ABOUT O.J. SIMPSON COULD BE BAD. AND THE CO-DEFENDANTS, I THINK, ARE GOING TO COME INTO THAT COURTROOM AND SAY TO THE JURY, THERE'S ONE PERSON THAT WAS IN CHARGE HERE. ONE PERSON ONLY. AND THAT IS O.J. SIMPSON. IS NOT OUR CLIENT. THAT WILL GO INTO THE DEFENSES BETWEEN THE DEFENDANTS. >> OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT WHAT THE JURORS ARE GOING TO BE ASKED. THAT TIES INTO THIS WHOLE IDEA THAT EHRLICH AND STEWART ARE REALLY WORRIED ABOUT THIS WHOLE THING AND HOW MUCH PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT O.J. SIMPSON BEFORE THEY END UP IN A COURTROOM WITH HIM. SOME OF THE QUESTIONNAIRE'S QUESTIONS ARE BEING CONTESTED. NO BIG SURPRISE. DID I READ CORRECTLY, 115 QUESTIONS AND 26 PAGES? IS THAT NORMAL? >> IT'S GOING TO BE A LONG ONE. IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY LONG ONE. NOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE THREE DEFENDANTS, BUT YOU'VE GOT O.J. SIMPSON THAT HAS QUITE A HISTORY AND THIS IS THE POINT OF TIME THAT THE DEFENSE COUNSEL FOR O.J. SIMPSON CAN JUST GET OUT THOSE JURORS THAT ARE PREJUDICET AGAINST MR. SIMPSON, THAT HAVE BIASSED OR THE STEALTH JUROR, THE ONE THAT WANTS TO WRITE THAT BOOK, THE ONE THAT WANTS TO BECOME FAMOUS BECAUSE OF BEING ON THE JURY OF THIS CASE. >> THIS IS WHY YOU LAWYERS GET PAID SO MUCH MORE. YOU FIGURE OUT THE RIGHT WORDING. LET ME READ SOME OF THE WORDING THAT THESE ATTORNEYS HAVE COME UP WITH WITH REGARD TO THE QUESTIONNAIRE. AND WHY, PERHAPS, IT DOESN'T SIT WELL WITH EVERYBODY. LET'S START WITH THE FIRST ONE HERE. DO YOU HAVE ANY PREJUDICES OR NEGATIVE OPINIONS AGAINST CO-DEFENDANT CLARENCE STEWART OR CHARLES EHRLICH BECAUSE THEY -- YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT THE RIGHT ONE. LET ME MOVE ON TO ANOTHER ONE. HOLD ON A MINUTE. DO YOU BELIEVE DEFENDANT SIMPSON HAS BEEN A LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN FOR INLAST TEN YEARS? TALK ABOUT GETTING RIGHT TO THE HEART OF IT ALL. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IF A PERSON IS PRESENT WHEN OTHERS COMMIT A CRIME THAT HE OR SHE IS ALSO GUILTY OF COMMITTING A CRIME? THAT'S ACTUALLY KIND OF FAIR TO ME. BUT THEN THERE'S THIS ONE. DO YOU HAVE ANY PRENLSS OR NEGATIVE OPINIONS AGAINST CO-DEFENDANT CLARENCE STEWART OR CHARLES EHRLICH BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE AT TRIAL WITH DEFENDANT O.J. SIMPSON? OKAY. JEAN, TO THE LAY PERSON, THESE SOUND PRETTY FAIR EXCEPT FOR THE ONE I TALKED ABOUT, SIMPSON'S LAST TEN YEARS. WHY IS THERE A PROBLEM WITH THESE? WHAT'S THE ISSUE? >> THERE'S A RULE THAT YOU FOLLOW IN THE STATE OF NOVEMBER. BEFORES THERE -- FOR THE PROSECUTION, THEY'RE SAYING NUMBER ONE, YOU CAN'T INCLUDE QUESTIONS THAT ARE ACTUALLY APPLICABLE FOR JURY INSTRUCTIONS TO GIVE TO THE JURY AT THE END OF THE TRIAL ON LIKE ACCOMPLICE LIABILITY, FOR INSTANCE. ALSO ANYTHING THAT YOU'RE GOING TO INCLUDE IN YOUR ARGUMENT, THAT'S ARGUMENT AND NOT APPROPRIATE FOR JURY QUESTIONS. SOME OF THIS, THE PROSECUTION IS SAYING, IS IRRELEVANT SUCH AS HAS DEFENDANT O.J. SIMPSON BEEN -- HAVING GOOD CONDUCT FOR THE LAST TEN YEARS OR SO. THEY SAY THAT'S IRRELEVANT. NOW, THE DEFENSE IS GOING TO ARGUE OTHERWISE. THEY'VE GOT TO GET TO THE HEART AND SOUL OF WHAT THE JURORS ARE ALL ABOUT. >> I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S IRRELEVANT. LIKE YOU SAID BEFORE, JEAN, WHAT IF THEY'RE STEALTH JURORS WHO ARE ANGRY OVER WHAT HAPPENED IN THE MURDER CASE OR IN THE CIVIL CASE AND WANT TO GET ON THIS JURY AND STICK IT TO HIM IN SOME WAY. AGAIN, I'M NOT THE LAWYER, BUT IT SEEMS THAT THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THOSE QUESTIONS. WHY IS THAT SO WRONG? >> WELL, NO. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE DEFENSE IS GOING TO SAY. I THINK THE MOST INTERESTING QUESTION OF ALL IS ONE BY THE DEFENSE THAT HAS TO DO WITH O.J. SIMPSON THAT DOESN'T HE HAVE A RIGHT TO MAKE A LIVING IN ORDER TO HELP HIS FAMILY. I THINK THAT'S A VERY CRITICAL QUESTION BECAUSE THAT GO TOWARDS THE CIVIL JUDGMENT THAT THE PROSECUTION WANTS TO BRING INTO THIS CASE AND I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE ONE THAT'S REALLY ARGUED BETWEEN THE TWO SIDES. >> LET ME MOVE ON TO THIS OTHER AREA THAT'S BEING COVERED IN COURT TODAY. IT WAS IN -- THE STATE'S MOTION TO DEPOSE ONE OF THE SPECIAL AGENTS. TURNS OUT HE'S AN FBI EXPERT IN AUDIO TAPES AND HE WENT OVER TAPES IN THIS CASE TO DEAL WITH AUTHENTICITY AND TO ENHANCE THEM. I WAS ALWAYS AWARE OF THE AUDIO TAPE THAT TOM RICCIO HAD, WHICH WAS THE EVENT, THE INCIDENT ITSELF ON A -- ON A TAPE. IN THAT HOTEL ROOM. BUT I WAS NEV AWARE OF A TAPE THAT WAS MADE, SOME CONVERSATION THAT WAS TAPED BY ONE OF THE -- ONE OF THE OTHER WITNESSES IN THE CASE, MICHAEL McCLINTON. AND SO NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT MICHAEL McCLINTON HAS PUT FORWARD AND THAT THIS SPECIAL AGENT HAS ENHANCED AND HAS AUTHENTICATED AND IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY BODE WELL FOR CLINTON DOES IT? CLINTON? THAT'S A FREUDIAN SLIP. FOR O.J. WHERE WAS THIS AUDIO TAPE MADE? AND WHAT WAS SAID ON IT? >> WE HEARD ABOUT THIS TAPE IN THE PRELIMINARY HEARING. MICHAEL McCLINTON ON THE STAND TESTIFIED THAT HE HAD A RECORDER AND THAT AFTER IT ALL CAME DOWN THAT NIGHT THAT HE AND O.J. SIMPSON WERE IN THE BAR. HE HAD THE RECORDER ON BECAUSE HE WANTED O.J. TO TALK ABOUT THE GUNS BECAUSE HE WAS GETTING REALLY NERVOUS. WHAT HE SAID ON THE STAND WAS, YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING ON MY TAPE. THEN THE FBI COMES IN AFTER THE PRELIMINARY HEARING. THEY ENHANCE THAT AUDIO TAPE SO YOU COULD UNDERSTAND SOME THINGS AND THE RESULT IS A PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT THAT WAS INCLUDED IN ONE OF THE RECENT MOTIONS. >> I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED IT, JEAN. GUESS WHAT I HAVE IN MY HANDS HERE? I'M GOING TO READ IT. COMING UP AFTER THE BREAK, YOU'LL HEAR EXACTLY WHAT WAS SAID. O.J.'S OWN WORDS WITH REGARD TO A WEAPON. YES. THERE IT IS AGAIN. AND THEN ALSO AFTER THE BREAK, ANOTHER VERY SPECIAL GUEST. YOU'VE SEEN HIM BEFORE. YOU'VE PROBABLY READ HIS BOOK. IT'S TOM RICCIO. HE'S STANDING BY LIVE. HE'LL TALK TO US ABOUT, OH, I DON'T KNOW, HIS TAPE. HE TALKED ABOUT IT A FEW MONTHS AGO. WE HAVE SOME ANSWERS. WE'VE ALSO GOT QUESTIONS THAT WEREN'T ANSWERED BY ONE OF THE ATTORNEYS IN THE CASE. >>> HE SAID THERE WAS TAPED EVIDENCE THAT O.J. KNEW THERE WAS A GUN. O.J.'S LAWYER SAYS THERE WAS SO SUCH TAPE. >>> I AM VERY ENERGIZED BY OUR NEW MUSIC AND GRAPHICS. JUST BECAUSE IT'S "B" DOESN'T MEAN IT'S LOWER THAN "A." JUST ASK SHEPHERD SMITH. STUDIO B. BIG DEAL. B SO IT TURNS OUT THAT TWO MONTHS AGO, JUST TWO MONTHS AGO, I'M TALKING TO TOM RICCIO HERE AT COURT TV AND I'M ASKING HIM ABOUT THIS CASE AND WHAT HE KNOWS ABOUT THE CASE AND HE TELLS ME, I KNOW SOMETHING YOU DON'T KNOW. I KNOW THERE'S AN AUDIO TAPE AND THAT COPS IN VEGAS HAVE AN AUDIO TAPE AND ON THAT AUDIO TAPE, MR. O.J. SIMPSON, WHO HAS DENIED UP AND DOWN THAT HE KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT WEAPONS TURNS OUT, HE'S ON AUDIO TAPE TALKING ABOUT A PIECE. WELL, I HAVEN'T SEEN THE TAPE. I HADN'T SEEN THE TAPE. I HADN'T SEEN THE TRANSCRIPT. I EVEN ASKED O.J.'S ATTORNEY, WHAT ABOUT THESE TAPES? O.J.'S ATTORNEY SAID -- WELL, I'M GOING TO PLAY HIS ANSWER FOR YOU IN A MOMENT. FIRST LET'S GO TO TOM RICCIO. HE WAS A WITNESS TO THE EVENTS THAT DAY. HE'S ALSO THE AUTHOR OF BUSTED. I DON'T EVEN HAVE TO REMIND YOU OF OUR CONVERSATION, DO I, TOM? >> NO. IT'S KIND OF FUNNY. WHEN THIS THING HAPPENED, PEOPLE CAME TO ME AND THEY SAID, WHY DIDN'T YOU GO TO THE POLICE? I TOLD THEM, I WENT TO THE POLICE. I WENT TO THE FBI. THEY BASICALLY CALLED ME A LIAR. NO ONE BELIEVED ME. THEN A COUPLE OF MONTHS LATER, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS REPORTS THAT THE FBI PUT ON A STATEMENT THAT I WENT AND SAW THEM. AND IT'S THE SAME THING HERE. I WENT AND TOLD YOU WHEN YOU ASKED ME, IS THERE ANYTHING NEW? I SAID THE POLICE TOLD ME THAT THEY HAVE A TAPE OF O.J. ADMITTING THAT THEY HAVE A GUN. EVERYBODY CALLED ME A LIAR AND NOW SOMEBODY ON YOUR SHOW, JEAN, FOUND THE TRANSCRIPT OF THAT -- OF WHEN I SAID I -- OF WHAT I SAID I KNOW. >> YOU BRING ME PERFECTLY TO THE TRANSCRIPT. SO WITHOUT FURTHER ADO, LET'S POP OUT THE INFORMATION FROM THAT TAPE. THE TAPE WILL BE INTRODUCED AT TRIAL, WE'RE JUST ASSUMING, BUT HERE'S HOW IT GOES. THE CONVERSATION BETWEEN MR. McCLINTON, THAT'S MICHAEL McCLINTON, AND O.J. SIMPSON. OKAY. SO THAT'S PRETTY TELLING STUFF. TOM, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU THIS BECAUSE I KNOW THAT YOU'RE -- YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT THAT -- THAT STORIED HISTORY. YOU HAVE MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE EXPERIENCE IN THE CRIMINAL WORLD AS A CONVICTED FELON THAN, SAY, I DO. BUT WHAT DOES A PIECE MEAN? WHAT'S A PIECE? >> IT'S OBVIOUS. THEY CAN SAY IT'S A PIECE OF CAKE OR A PIECE OF PIE, BUT EVERYONE KNOW A PIECE MEANS A GUN. AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S FUNNY. I NEVER SAY ANYTHING BECAUSE I KNOW PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO BELIEVE ME UNLESS I CAN BACK IT UP. UNLESS THE POLICE KNOW IT ALREADY. YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING IN MY BOOK IS LAID OUT FROM "A" TO "Z" AND I HAVE EVERYTHING TO BACK IT UP, EVERY BIT OF IT OF EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. IF I DIDN'T -- ANDS THE ARE ARLOT OF OTHER THINGS I SORT OF KNOW BUT I DON'T HAVE THINGS TO BACK IT UP SO I DON'T EVEN SAY IT. IF I SAY IT, THERE'S EVIDENCE TO BACK IT UP. AS LONG AS I KNOW THAT THE POLICE KNOW IT, I DON'T CARE IF THE MEDIA OR THE REGULAR FAN OF THE CASE KNOWS IT BECAUSE IT WILL ALL COME OUT IN THE END. >> ARE YOU GOING TO GO TALK ON ANOTHER SHOW, TOM? ARE YOU GOING TO GO DO ANOTHER SHOW? THIS IS NOT AN EXCLUSIVE? >> I'M HAPPY TO DO YOUR SHOW AND I'M A BIG FAN OF YOURS, ASHLEY. YOU KNOW THAT. >> I HAVE A LOT OF VIEWERS OUT THERE. A LOT OF PEOPLE AREN'T TOO CRAZY ABOUT. YOU HAVE A STORIED PAST. YOU'RE AN EX-CONAND DIDN'T YOU ESCAPE FROM JAIL ONE TIME. BY THE WAY, HOW DID YOU DO THAT? >> I -- IT WAS A STUPID THING. I WAS A YOUNG KID. I WAS IN CONNECTICUT. I WAS TOLD I WOULD BE GETTING OUT IN A FEW MONTHS AND I WENT THROUGH THE PAROLE HEARING AND THEY TOLD ME BASICALLY THEY THOUGHT I HAD MORE OF THE STUFF THAT I HAD -- THAT I WAS DEALING THE STOLEN GOODS, AND THAT I WAS GOING TO CONTINUE TO EXPLORATION, SO I GOT UPSET AND I CLIMBED UP ON THE ROOF AND WENT OVER THE ROOF AND RAN OFF TO CALIFORNIA. THAT'S WHERE I MET MY WIFE, THOUGH. >> SO IT'S ALL GOOD. >> YEAH. I MET MY WIFE WHILE I WAS OUT ON THE ESCAPE. WE'RE STILL TOGETHER 20-SOMETHING YEARS LATER. >> WELL, THAT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR CHARACTER. YOU'RE GOING TO BE A WITNESS IN THIS CASE. YOU WERE GIVEN IMMUNITY TO TESTIFY IN THIS CASE. DO YOU NOT EXPECT, TOM, THAT IF/WHEN WE GET THE TRIAL IN SEPTEMBER OR -- I CAN'T REMEMBER THE DATE. WHEN WE GET TO TRIAL THAT YOU'RE GOING TO GET BEATEN UP SOMETHING FIERCE ON THAT STAND? >> YOU KNOW, I EXPECTED THAT DURING THE PRELIMINARY AND THEY WERE ALL VERY NICE TO ME. YOU KNOW, I EXPECT IT. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT AREN'T NICE TO ME EVERY DAY. I'M NOT GOING TO CRY AND KILL MYSELF. WHATEVER HAPPENS HAPPENS. I'M NOT THE ONE ON TRIAL HERE. >> LET ME START WITH THE DIRECT EXAM. YOU'LL GET UP ON THE STAND AND THE PROSECUTOR IN THE CASE IS GOING TO SAY, MR. RICCIO, TAKE ME THROUGH THOSE MOMENTS WHEN YOU WALKED IN ON WHAT ENDED UP BEING THE REASON WE'RE HERE TODAY. WHAT HAPPENED AND WHAT EXACTLY DID YOU SEE? I'M GOING TO HAVE TO GET YOU TO GIVE ME THE TRUNCATED TV VERSION OF THAT. >> WELL, LET ME START OFF BY SAYING WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN. O.J. WAS SUPPOSED TO GO IN THERE. AL BEARDSLEY SAID THAT HE HAD O.J.'S STUFF. WE DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WAS TRUE OR NOT. I TRIED TO DESCRIBE TO O.J. THAT THERE IS STUFF THAT -- SO HE WAS SUPPOSED TO COME IN, IDENTIFY HIS STUFF AND GIVE THEM TWO OPTIONS. EITHER TURN IT OVER TO ME OR WE'RE GOING TO CALL THE POLICE. THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENED. HE CAME IN AND HE WAS REALLY UPSET. AND THE COOL THING IS, THOUGH, THEY WERE TURNING OVER THE STUFF THE FIRST MINUTE. THEY WERE LIKE, O.J., WE'RE SORRY. MIKE TOOK THIS AND GAVE IT TO US. AND PEOPLE PULLED OUT GUNS. AT LEAST I SAW ONE JUST A FEW INCHES FROM MY FACE. >> OKAY. NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M GETTING AT. THAT'S THE STUFF I'M GETTING AT. THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ALL CENTERING AROUND. NOT THAT THERE WAS AN ARGUMENT ABOUT WHO OWNS WHAT, BUT THAT GUNS WERE PULLED. YOU'RE TELLING ME TODAY YOU SAW THE GUN PLAIN AS DAY? DID YOU SEE IF O.J. -- >> THERE WAS ONE -- THERE WAS ONE -- NO. O.J. WAS A -- HE WAS MAYBE FOUR FEET IN FRONT OF ME YELLING AT THESE GUYS AND THE GUY WITH THE GUN WAS RIGHT NEXT TO MY FACE. HE WAS WAVING IT. IT ALMOST HIT ME IN THE FACE A COUPLE OF TIMES. I TOOK A COUPLE OF STEPS BACK AND TRIED TO KEEP A LOW PROFILE AT THAT POINT. BUT O.J. WAS IN FRONT OF HIM. I MEAN, IF YOU ASKED ME DID HE -- WAS HE TELLING PEOPLE TO PULL OUT THE GUN? WAS HE LOOKING AT THE GUN? I REALLY CAN'T FOR SURE SAY THAT HE EVEN SAW THE GUN AT THAT POINT. HE WAS IN FRONT OF ME YELLING AT THE OTHER GUYS THAT HAD HIS STUFF. >> SO YOU CAN'T HELP ONE WAY OR THE OTHER WITH REGARD TO WHETHER, LOOK, THE GUNS WERE IN PLAIN SIGHT. EVERYBODY IN THE HOTEL ROOM SAW THE GUNS. YOU WILL BE ASKED THIS. I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF O.J. COULD NOT SEE THE GUNS. >> WELL, I MEAN, YOU CAN MAKE THAT ASSUMPTION. ALL I CAN SAY IS I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT IT AND THOUGHT ABOUT. I WISH WE HAD VIDEO TAPE. HE WAS YELLING AT THE GUYS THE WHOLE TIME. I DIDN'T SEE HIM TURN AROUND AND -- WITH THE GUN. THERE IS A CHANCE THAT HE DIDN'T SEE IT, BUT THERE'S THIS EVIDENCE THAT HE KNEW ABOUT IT. SO IT MIGHT BE MOOT ANYWAY WHETHER -- WHETHER I SAW HIM SEE THE GUN OR NOT. >> AND YOU KNOW WHAT? LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT. WE ALREADY SHOWED THE TRANSCRIPT OF THAT TAPE. NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, HELL NO, I DIDN'T PULL THAT PIECE OUT IN THE HALL ESSENTIALLY, PARAPHRASING, BUT APRIL 10th, I THINK IT WAS, JUST TWO MONTHS AGO WHEN YOU BROUGHT IT TO MY ATTENTION THAT THERE'S A TAPE OUT THERE, I DECIDED TO ASK GALE, WHO IS O.J. SIMPSON'S ATTORNEY ABOUT A TAPE. I SAID, HEY, DUDE, I'M HEARING ABOUT THIS TAPE. DO YOU KNOW IF A TAPE EXISTS? BECAUSE IF IT DOES, IT'S NOT GOING TO BODE WELL FOR YOUR CLIENT. AND HERE'S HOW HE ANSWERED THAT QUESTION LIVE ON THIS SHOW. >> WE'VE ASKED THEM ABOUT THIS. THERE IS NO TAPE THAT IS CURRENTLY IN THEIR POSSESSION. OBVIOUSLY THEY CAN'T LOCK THEMSELVES IN ABOUT FUTURE THINGS. I'VE CERTAINLY REVIEWED ALL OF THE TAPES, LOOKED AT ALL OF THE FILES. THERE IS NOTHING LIKE THAT THAT -- THAT WE EVEN SUSPECT IS THERE. >> OKAY. IN THE INTEREST OF DISCOVERY, I'M HOPING THAT HE NOW HAS THAT TRANSCRIPT AND ALL OF THAT INFORMATION IN HIS HANDS. HE'S GOING TO HAVE AN UPHILL BATTLE MOVING AROUND THAT THING. ARE THE MORE TAPES? >> ASHLEY, YOU CUT OUT THE PART WHERE HE SAID THAT I SAID THAT JUST TO SELL BOOKS. IT WAS THE NEXT LINE. I REALLY RESPECT YALE GALANTER. I'VE HAD DEALINGS WITH HIM YEARS AGO WITH AL BEARDSLEY. YALE TOLD ME HOW MUCH OF A NUT BEARDSLEY IS. HE WAS A REAL CLASS ACT WITH US. AND I REALLY RESPECT HIM. I'D EXPECT SOMETHING LESS FROM YALE GALANTER TO SAY WHAT HE SAID. I DON'T TAKE OFFENSE TO IT. HE'S A GOOD LAWYER. I KNOW WHY HE SAID IT. BUT, OF COURSE, WE KNOW DIFFERENTLY. AND I THINK HE DOES ALSO. >> QUICKLY, TEN SECONDS, ARE THERE ANY MORE TAPES? AM I GOING TO HEAR MORE ABOUT THIS? ANYTHING ELSE COMING OUT OF THE WOODWORK? >> THE POLICE CALLED ME TO SEE WHAT WAS IN MY BOOK, TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANYTHING NEW. THAT'S WHEN THEY TOLD ME ABOUT THESE TAPES. HERE'S WHAT YOU DO. YOU LOG ON TO CNN.COM/CRIME, THERE IT IS. YOU CLICK ON COURTSIDE AND YOU SEND AN E-MAIL OR DO IT THE EASIER WAY. CLICK ON COURTSIDE@CNN.COM. THAT'S EASY. KEEP IT SHORT, SMART, SWEET, AND SPELL IT CORRECTLY. I CAN'T TELL YOU ENOUGH, GUYS, HOW MANY YOU DON'T GET ON THE AIR BECAUSE YOU MISSPELLED AND. PLEASE DON'T DO THAT. >>> WELCOME TO "BANFIELD & FORD COURTSIDE." IT'S ONE OF THE DAYS WHEN A LOT OF PREGNANT PAUSES AND SILENCES IN THE COURTROOM DON'T BORE YOU AT ALL. BECAUSE IT'S THE WORDS, THE ACCENT, THE NEIL ENTWISTLE. ONE OF THE FIRST TIMES WE'RE ABLE TO HEAR HIM VERY CLEARLY DESCRIBING HIS VERSION OF EVENTS. WHY DO WE ALL CARE SO MUCH ABOUT THIS? NO ONE KNOW IFS HE'S GOING TO TAKE THE STAND OR NOT. THIS MAY BE THE ONLY TIME WE GET TO HEAR MR. ENTWISTLE'S VERSION OF WHY HE WOULD WALK AWAY FROM HIS BLEEDING WIFE AND BABY WITHOUT CHECKING FOR VITAL SIGNS. UPON DISCOVERING THEM DEAD -- SHOCKINGLY, IN THEIR BED. AND THEN JUST WALTZ OFF TO ENGLAND. IT IS BIZARRE. CAN I ADD THAT HE WENT AND SAW FUN WITH DICK AND JANE COUPLE OF DAYS LATER WITH HIS MATES AFTER DINNER? BIZARRE. WILBUR, MASSACHUSETTS, BETH KARAS. FORGIVE ME MY TONE OF VOICE, THE MORE I HEAR, THE ANGRIER I GET. THE ANGRIER THE REACTIONS. THE ANGRIER I GET AT THE SUGGESTION THAT RACHAEL MUST HAVE DONE THIS TO HERSELF AND MURDERED HER BABY FIRST. THERE'S SO MUCH I WORRY THIS JURY IS GOING TO FEEL AS WELL. THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE SORT OF STAYING IN THE MIDDLE OF IT ALL. I GUESS WE HAVE TO REMIND EVERYONE, BETH, THAT THE DEFENSE HASN'T BEGUN YET? >> Reporter: CORRECT, THE DEFENSE DOESN'T HAVE TO PUT ON ANY EVIDENCE. THEY HAVE PLENTY TO PROVE HERE. THEY RAISE REDIRECT EXAMINATION AND DO IT WITH THE CROSS-EXAMINATION OF THE PROSECUTION WITNESSES. THAT MAY BE ALL WE'RE GOING TO SEE HERE. THE DEFENSE HAS NOT ASKED ABOUT MY DAILY QUESTIONS. I PRY EVERY DAY AFTER THE COURT, PUT TONG CASE, WHAT'S GOING ON, I GET NOWHERE. >> GOING TO HOLD YOUR FEET TO THE FIRE NOW. I'M GOING ASK YOU AS I THINK ALONG WITH YOU, IF THAT'S THE CASE AND THE DEFENSE DOES NOT HAVE TO PUT ON A CASE, IT JUST HAS TO REASONABLE DOUBT THROUGH CROSS-EXAMINATION, THINK ALONG WITH ME, WHERE HAS REASONABLE DOUBT YET BEEN RAISED? I SAY REASONABLE -- I GET DOUBT, WHERE IS REASONABLE DOUBT RAISE IN THIS CASE? >> I THINK THAT THEY WILL RELY ON THE CROSS-EXAMINATION OF DR. SEINE, THE MEDICAL EXAMINER. THAT'S WHERE THEY INTRODUCED THE SUICIDE THEORY. MAYBE THEY'RE NOT LOOKING TO CONVINCE 12 PEOPLE OF THAT. EVEN IF ONE THING, JEEZ, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT RACHAEL AND SHE DID HAVE RESIDUE ON HER HAND. AND MAYBE, YOU KNOW, PUT THE GUN BACK IN THE HOUSE AND WAS PROTECTING HIS WIFE REPUTATION AND DIGNITY AND IS TAKING A FALL FOR HER. IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE SENSE, BUT IT MAY BE WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO ARGUE. I DON'T KNOW -- I MEAN THEY HAVE -- PROSECUTION HAS A LOT OF EVIDENCE ON MOTIVE, MEANS, AND OPPORTUNITY. >> YEAH. >> Reporter: THEY HAVE SOME FORENSIC EVIDENCE TYING NEIL END WHISK TOLL THE MURDER WEAPON. THAT CAN BE EXPLAINED AWAY. HIS GRIP ON THE MURDER WEAPON CAN BE EXPLAINED AWAY BECAUSE HE HANDLED THE GUN ON A COUPLE OF OCCASIONS IN THE RECENT PAST WHEN HE WENT TO THE GUN CLUB WITH HIS FATHER-IN-LAWW. >> YOU'RE RIGHT. I HAVE BEEN LISTENING ALONG WITH THAT AS WELL. BUT YOU KNOW, I'VE COVERED CASES WHERE MURDER WEAPONS WEREN'T FOUND AT ALL AND SOMEONE WAS CONVICTED BASED ON THE CIRCUMSTANTIAL -- VERY POWERFUL CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. LET ME GET REMI IN THIS CONVERSATION. I LOVE THAT WE'RE ON THE TWO SHOT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IT ALLOWS ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET PHYSICAL. >> SHOULD I BE CONCERNED? >> BE AFRAID, MY FRIEND. THE REASON I SAY THAT IS THIS, YOU AND I HAVE BEEN LISTENING. WE'RE BOTH YOUNG WOMEN OUR WHOLE LIVES AHEAD OF US. I HAVE A LITTLE BABY. I'M TRYING VERY HARD TO THINK THROUGH WHAT THE DEFENSE TOLD US YESTERDAY ABOUT THIS POSSIBLE PLAUSIBLE MURDER/SUICIDE. THE FACTS IN THE CASE SHOW THAT THE GUN WAS FIRED AT HER HAIRLINE FROM, WHAT, 18 INCHES AWAY OR SO? CAN YOU ACT IT OUT WITH ME? HOW FAR AWAY DO YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR HAND WITH THE LONG BARREL? >> THIS IS A DIFFICULT ARGUMENT THAT THE DEFENSE IS TRYING TO MAKE. I'M NOT SO SURE THAT THE GENERAL AUDIENCE IS GOING TO THINK -- IT COULD HAVE HAPPENED, IT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED. WHAT THE DEFENSE ATTORNEYS ARE DOING IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY MUST DO. THEY MUST TRY AND GIVE THESE JURORS AN ALTERNATIVE TO THE STATE'S THEORY OF THE CASE. BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT REASONABLE DOUBT IS. >> RIDICULOUS. >> ARE YOU CRAZY? >> YOU SAID IT, ASHLEIGH. >> TOTALLY CRAZY AND OFFENSIVE. >> REASONABLE IS THE TOUCHSTONE HERE. WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO IS PERHAPS FWOILD A POINT WHERE THEY CAN ARGUE IN THEIR SUMMATION THAT THE JURY DOESN'T KNOW EVERYTHING. THEY DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT RACHAEL AND THEREFORE THERE'S A LACK OF EVIDENCE. IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO IMAGINE HOW A MOTHER COULD SHOOT HER BABY -- SHOOTING HERSELF BECAUSE THE BULLET WENT THROUGH THE BABY AND AS YOU POINT OUT, RAISE HER ARM 15, 16 INCHES OVER HER HEAD. >> WHILE NOT DISTURBING THE SAME POSITION OF THE BABY. IT DIDN'T MOVE AT ALL. IT'S OFFENSIVE. AS A MOTHER, IT'S OFFENSIVE TO SUGGEST THAT A MURDER VICTIM IS BEING SULLIED AS A MURDERER IN THIS COURTROOM. LET'S GO BACK TO THE COURTROOM RIGHT NOW. THE PROSECUTOR IN THIS CASE IS CONTINUING THE QUESTIONING OF TROOPER MANNING IN THIS CASE. TROOPER MANNING HAD A LONG CONVERSATION WITH NEIL ENTWISTLE. >> ON THAT FRIDAY, JANUARY 20? >> YES. >> WHAT DID HE SAY? >> I ASKED HIM IF WE COULD TALK ABOUT THE ACTIVITIES THAT MORNING -- WHY HE WAS OUT DOING HIS ERRANDS AND I REFERENCED IT THAT I DIDN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT COMING BACK AND FINDING THE BODIES. SPECIFICALLY WHILE YOU WERE OUT OF THE HOUSE. AND HOLD THE ME THAT HE HAD GONE TO STAPLES -- WENT TO DO SOME ERRANDS, WENT TO STAPLES, WENT TO GO TO WAL-MART. COULDN'T FIND IT, DROVE UP AND DOWN THE AREA A COUPLE OF TIMES. DURING THE CONVERSATION, I ASKED HIM IF THERE WAS ANYBODY OR ANYTHING, DID HE STOP FOR GAS, GET COFFEE, ANY TYPE OF THING HE MIGHT HAVE INTERACTED WITH SOMEBODY? HE TOLD ME NO. AND I ASKED HIM WHAT ABOUT WHEN YOU WENT TO STAPLES. DID YOU INTERACT WITH ANYBODY IN THERE? FIRST HE SAID NO. THEN THOUGHT ABOUT IT FOR A SECOND. HE SAID MAYBE A SALES MAN HAD COME UP TO HIM AND ASKED HIM IF HE HAD NEEDED HELP OR ANYTHING, HE SAID NO AND HE MADE THE COMMENT TO ME HE DIDN'T THINK THAT PERSON WOULD REMEMBER HIM. SO HE TOLD ME THAT HE DIDN'T BUY ANYTHING WHILE HE WAS IN STAPLES AND THAT WAS THE REASON WHY HE WAS TRYING TO FIND WAL-MART. BUT, AGAIN, HE REITERATED HE COULD NOT FIND IT. AND I BELIEVE I ASKED HIM WHAT EXACTLY WAS HE SHOPPING FOR? AND HE EXPLAINED TO ME HE WAS SHOPPING FOR SOME KIND OF WIRE LESS COMPUTER -- SOME KIND OF WIRELESS GADGET FOR THE COMPUTER THAT HAD BEEN HOOKED UP AT THE HOUSE. >> THE CONVERSATION TURNED TO THE HOME. >> YES, IT DID. >> TELL US WHAT THE DEFENDANT TOLD YOU? >> INITIATED THE CHANGE IN SUBJECT AND WE TALKED ABOUT -- HE TOLD ME THAT HE -- HE DIDN'T GET IN AND THAT HE DIDN'T HAVE TO THE KEY TO THE CABA HOUSE WAS NOT ON THE BMW KEY CHAIN AND MADE A COMMENT THAT RACHAEL HAD LOST THAT KEY. I ASKED HIM, WHEN DID -- WHEN DID THAT OCCUR? AND HE TOLD ME THAT THAT OCCURRED AFTER THEY HAD TAKEN OVER THE HARKINGTON RESIDENCE BUT STILL LIVING IN CARA. I ASKED HIM IF THERE WAS A KEY -- DID HE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT A SPARE KEY? TO JOEL PRISCILLA'S HOUSE IN. >> DID HE SAY ANYTHING? >> HE SAID HE WAS AWARE OF THE SPARE KEY AND HE TOLD ME HE WAS IN THE DOG HOUSE ON THAT PROPERTY AND HE EXPLAINED TO ME -- I MIGHT HAVE ASKED HIM, DOES RACHAEL KNOW ABOUT THAT KEY? AND HE TOLD ME, YEAH, SHE KNEW ABOUT THAT KEY. AND HE GAVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF HOW RACHAEL KNEW ABOUT THAT KEY. >> DID HE SAY ANYTHING TO YOU, SIR, ABOUT THE KEY THAT RACHAEL HAD BEEN GIVEN? >> I BELIEVE SO, YES, SIR. >> WHAT DO YOU RECALL HIM SAYING? >> I BELIEVE HE REFERENCED WHEN HE GAVE ME THE EXAMPLE OF HOW THE SPARE KEY IN THE DOG HOUSE, HE REFERENCED THOSE KEYS WERE PUT ON THE HARKING TON KEY CHAIN. >> DID HE SAY WHETHER HE STILL HAD THOSE KEYS? >> NO, SIR, HE SAID THEY WERE MISSING. >> DID THE CONVERSATION TURN TO THE BMW MOTOR VEHICLE? >> YES, SIR, IT DID. >> TELL US WHAT YOU TALKED ABOUT WITH THE DEFENDANT. >> I BROUGHT UP THE SITUATION OF WHERE WERE THE KEYS TO THE BMW. HE EXPLAINED TO ME THEY WERE IN THE BMW. I THINK I ASKED HIM WHERE. HE SAID IN THE ARMREST -- HE LEFT THEM IN THE ARMREST. I ASKED HIM, WHY DID YOU DO THAT? HE TOLD ME HE FIGURED HE WASN'T GOING TO NEED HIM, WASN'T SURE WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO. AND HE MADE THE COMMENT SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF, REALLY? IT JUST MAKES SENSE OR JUST SEEMED TO MAKE SENSE. I WASN'T GOING TO NEED THEM. >> DID YOU TALK ABOUT HIS RETURN TO THE UNITED STATES FROM ENGLAND? >> YES, SIR, WE DID. >> WHAT DID YOU ASK HIM? WHAT DID HE SAY? >> IT WAS PROMPTED, MADE A COMMENT TO ME ABOUT IF HE DID COME BACK, THE KEYS WOULD HAVE BEEN THERE. I ASKED HIM, WELL, WHEN YOU COMING BACK? HE TOLD ME HE DIDN'T KNOW. HE MADE A REFERENCE TO ME THAT HE HAD BEEN THINKING ABOUT THAT. THAT HE HAD TALKED TO JOE EARLIER IN THE DAY AND THAT CONVERSATION WITH JOE MADE HIM THINK ABOUT WHETHER HE SHOULD RETURN HERE OR NOT. HE SAID IT SEEMS STRANGE THAT HE WAS OVER THERE, MAYBE HE SHOULD BE THERE. >> WAS THERE ANY CONVERSATION, SIR, DURING THAT PORTION OF THE CALL ABOUT ARRANGEMENTS -- FUNERAL ARRANGEMENTS? >> THERE MAY HAVE BEEN, SIR. >> DID YOU TALK TO THE DEFENDANT ABOUT WHY HE HAD GONE TO ENGLAND? >> YES, I DID. >> WHAT DID HE SAY TO YOU? >> I BELIEVE WE TALKED ABOUT THAT IT DID SEEM STRANGE TO ME THAT HE WENT TO ENGLAND AND HE TOLD ME HE NEEDED TO BE WITH HIS FOLKS AND HE REFERENCED HE BELIEVED HE NEEDED TO GET HIS HEAD AROUND IT IS THE STATEMENT I THINK HE MADE TO ME. >>> WELCOME BACK TO "BANFIELD & FORD." WE'RE IN SESSION AND SO ARE THEY. THAT'S TROOPER BOB MANNING KNOWN AS SERGEANT MANNING TO MOST PEOPLE IN MASSACHUSETTS WHO HAVE WORKED WITH HIM AND KNOW HIM. HE'S THE OTHER END OF THE LINE WITH THE TWO-HOUR PHONE CONVERSATION WITH NEIL ENTWISTLE ON MONDAY -- MONDAY AFTER THE SATURDAY FLIGHT TO ENGLAND. TWO DAYS AFTER HE LEFT THE COUNTRY AND WHAT WILL PROBABLY BE THREE DAYS SINCE THE MURDERS OF HIS WIFE AND CHILD. HE'S DESCRIBING THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THAT PHONE CONVERSATION NOW. >> CEREAL -- MENTION HE MADE CHEERIOS AND SOME OTHER KIND OF CEREAL. SHE ONLY ATE A LITTLE BIT. BROUGHT HER IN TO WHAT HE -- THEY DESCRIBED AS THE TOY ROOM, THE FAMILY ROOM, WHERE THERE WAS ALL LILLY'S TOYS ALL OVER. THEY WERE THERE FOR A WHILE. THERE WAS -- HE SAID IT WAS COLD. SO IT BROUGHT HER INTO THE TV ROOM. THEN AT SOME POINT HE REFERENCED IT WAS GETTING CLOSE TO 9:00. SO HE BROUGHT LILLY UPSTAIRS, PUT HER IN BED WITH RACHAEL. AND HE GOT READY TO GO OUT AND DO HIS ERRANDS. I ASKED HIM IF HE SHOWERED TO GET READY LIKE THAT AND HE SAID, NO, HE JUST WASHED UP AND WENT OUT TO DO MY ERRANDS. HE SAID HE LEFT AND LILLY WAS IN WITH RACHAEL, IN BED WITH RACHAEL. >> DID YOU HAVE A FURTHER DISCUSSION WITH THE DEFENDANT ABOUT HIS ACTIVITIES AND HIS TIMELINE FOLLOWING HIS RETURN FROM HIS ERRANDS? >> YES, I DID. >> WHAT DID HE TELL YOU? >> HE TOLD ME -- HE CAME BACK TO THE HOUSE AND I -- I SAID TO HIM, WE DON'T NEED TO GO BACK IN ABOUT FINDING AND DISCOVERING THE BODIES AND GOING OVER THAT. AND ULTIMATELY I THINK I MADE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS AS I WAS EXPLAINING TO HIM YOU DON'T HAVE TO -- WE DON'T HAVE TO GO IN TO YOU EXPLAINING THE BODY -- FINDING THE BODIES TO ME. BUT I COMMENTED THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU DIDN'T CALL 911. YOU JUST LEFT AND YOU HEADED DOWN TO CARVER. AND HE SAID, YES. >> I WAS GOING TO ASK -- HOW DID HE RESPOND? >> I'M SORRY, HE RESPONDED -- YES, HE DID. AND THAT HE WENT DOWN TO CARVER. HE MAY HAVE TOLD ME HE DIDN'T GET IN AGAIN AND HE NEEDED -- SO HE NEEDED SOME TIME TO CLEAR HIS HEAD. HE JUST DROVE AROUND. THEN HE REFERENCED THAT AFTER DRIVING AROUND FOR A PERIOD OF TIME, HE WENT TO TRY TO FIND PRISCILLA AT WORK. >> DID HE TELL YOU WHETHER OR NOT HE WAS ABLE TO FIND PRISCILLA? >> YES, SIR. WE HAD SOME CONVERSATION CONCERNING HOW HE MIGHT HAVE TRIED TO FIND PRISCILLA AND BY THAT CONVERSATION, I REFERENCED TO HIM THAT, YOU KNOW, DID YOU TRY AND CALL HER? DID YOU TRY AND CALL HER AT WORK, CELL PHONE, TRY AND CALL JOE WHILE YOU WERE -- THINGS LIKE THAT. AND HE TOLD ME THAT HE DIDN'T -- HE DID NOT TRY TO DO THOSE THINGS EVEN THOUGH AND I THINK AT ONE POINT I MADE A REFERENCE TO LIKE PRISCILLA'S WORK, PRISCILLA'S CELL PHONE, JOE'S CELL PHONE. THE ONLY NUMBER HE ACKNOWLEDGED KNOWING WAS THE CARVER HOME. >> DID YOU HAVE FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH THE DEFENDANT AFTER THAT CONCERNING THE CARVER HOME AND IN PARTICULAR JOE'S FIREARMS? >> YES, SIR. >> WHAT DID MR. ENTWISTLE TELL YOU? >> WELL, BACK AT THE CARVER HOME, HE TALKED ABOUT AGAIN NOT GETTING IN. I ASKED WHAT WAS THE REASON HE WENT TO THE CARVER HOME. HE WENT TO THE CARVER HOME TO GET JOE'S GUN. I ASKED HIM, DID YOU KNOW WHERE JOE'S GUNS WERE? AND HE EXPLAINED TO ME, HE SAID, YES, HE ASSUMED THEY WERE IN THE BEDROOM, BUT THAT IF THEY WEREN'T IN THE BEDROOM, HE WOULD KNOW -- HE KNEW THEY WERE SOMEWHERE IN ANOTHER ROOM IN THE HOUSE. >> DID YOU TALK TO ANYONE AT ALL ABOUT THE CONDITION OF THE GUNS? >> WHAT DID HE ASK YOU? WHAT DID HE TELL YOU? >> I ASKED HIM IF HE WAS THERE TO GET THE GUN, WOULD THEY BE LOCKED UP. HE TOLD ME HE KNEW THE GUNS HAD LOCKS ON THEM. THAT HE WAS WITH JOE WHEN THEY BOUGHT THE LOCK -- THE TRIGGER LOCKS TO THE GUNS. HE EXPLAINED TO ME HE KNEW THAT JOEL KEPT THE GUNS IN A BLACK BAG. >> DID YOU TALK AT ALL ABOUT THE LOCATION OF THE KEYS TO THOSE GUN LOCKS? >> YES, SIR, I DID. >> WHERE DO YOU RECALL THE DEFENDANT TELLING YOU? >> I -- AFTER THAT, I ASKED HIM -- WELL, IF THEY WERE LOCKED UP, HOW WOULD YOU GET AHOLD OF THEM? AND HE TOLD ME THAT HE WAS AWARE THAT -- OF THE KEYS -- THEY WERE SOMEWHERE IN THE HOUSE. HE KNEW WHAT THEY LOOKED LIKE. AND THAT HE -- HE WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FIND THEM. >> DID THE CONVERSATION TURN AT THAT POINT, SIR, TO FINANCES -- THE DEFENDANT'S FINANCES? >> YES, SIR. >> WHAT, IF ANYTHING, DID HE TELL YOU? >> I THINK I -- I THINK I ASKED HIM SPECIFICALLY ABOUT HIS CREDIT CARDS AND HE -- HE GAVE ME THE INFORMATION OF HOW MANY CREDIT CARDS THEY HAD AND NOT SURE IF WE WENT OVER ACCOUNTS OR NOT, BUT BASICALLY, I THINK IT WAS A COUPLE OF VISAS, A DEBIT CARD, MAYBE A MASTERCARD. WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HIS FINANCES AND THEY HAD MONEY THAT THEY BROUGHT OVER FROM ENGLAND. AND THAT I THINK HE MENTIONED THAT RACHAEL HAD AN ACCOUNT WITH PRISCILLA AND HE SAID THAT THEY WERE JUST STARTING TO GET ON TRACK OVER IN THIS COUNTRY. >> CONVERSATION END AT THAT POINT? >> NO, SIR. >> WHAT ELSE WAS SAID? >> I THINK WE GOT A LITTLE -- I DON'T WANT TO SAY A GREETING, A CONVERSATION ABOUT I ASKED IF THERE WAS ANYTHING ELSE HE COULD HELP ME WITH. HE DIDN'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY. AND WE SPOKE ABOUT STAYING IN CONTACT AND THE MEDICAL EXAMS WERE GOING TO BE DONE. I BELIEVE I ASKED HIM IF IT WAS OKAY I CALLED HIM AFTER THEY WERE DONE. I WAS AWARE OF THE TIME DIFFERENCE AND HE SAID, DON'T WORRY, CALL AT ANY TIME. >> THE CALL ENDED AT THAT POINT, SIR? >> YES, SIR, ID -- IT DID. >> THE SAME DAY, JANUARY 4, 2006, 7:30, DID YOU MAKE A PHONE CALL TO SOMEBODY? >> YES, I DID. >> WHO DID YOU CALL? >> NEIL ENTWISTLE. >> AND WERE YOU ABLE TO GET THROUGH TO HIM? >> I WAS. >> DID THE TWO OF YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION FOR A PERIOD OF TIME? >> YES, SIR. >> ABOUT HOW LONG DID THAT CALL LAST? >> I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY. MAYBE 45 ANYBODIIES -- MINUTES, COULD BE A LITTLE LONGER. >> AND WHETHER OR NOT THAT PHONE CALL WAS RECORDED OR SOMEHOW PRESERVE? >> YES, SIR, IT WAS. >> HOW WAS IT RECORDED OR PRESERVE? >> I WAS INITIATING THIS PHONE CALL AND MADE THE DETERMINATION TO -- WE HAD A TAPE RECORDER IN MY OFFICE AT THAT TIME AND WE HAD SOME DEVICE THAT YOU COULD PUT IT ON THE TELEPHONE AND I HOOKED THE TAPE RECORDER UP TO THE TELEPHONE. WHEN I CALLED HIM, I USED THAT. >> PLACED AN ITEM IN FRONT OF YOU, SIR. TAKE A LOOK AT IT, PLEASE. >> YES, SIR. >> DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT? >> I DO, SIR. >> WHAT IS THAT? >> A CD DISC OF THE PHONE CONVERSATION I HAD WITH NEIL ENTWISTLE FROM MY OFFICE ON TUESDAY EVENING. >> HAVE YOU LISTENED TO THAT CD? >> YES, SIR. >> IS IT THE FAIR, TRUE, AND COMPLETE RECORDING IN THAT PHONE CALL THAT YOU HAD WITH MR. ENTWISTLE ON THE EVENING OF JANUARY 24, 2006? >> YES, SIR, I BELIEVE SO. >> WITHOUT OBJECTION. >> PLAY THIS ONE. >> YES. >> PLAY A FEW SECONDS SO WE CAN BE SURE -- >>> WELCOME BACK. WE'RE IN SESSION. THEY ARE NOT, ACTUALLY, THEY'RE IN A BRIEF SIDE BAR. YOU'RE NOT MISSING ANY TESTIMONY IN THIS CASE SO A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO OUR GUEST WHO'S LIVE WITH US. YOU'VE COVERED SO MANY OF OUR LIVE PROFILE CASES. THERE'S A LOT MADE THAT THERE WOULD BE NO WAY WE COULD PICK AN IMPARABLE JURY IN THIS CASE. LO AND BEHOLD, EIGHT JURORS FOUND NOTHING ABOUT IT. AS THE CASE PROGRESSES AND THE HEADLINES GETS UGLIER AND UGLIER, THERE'S NOBODY IN YOUR STATE THAT HASN'T HEARD ABOUT THIS CASE. WHAT'S THE BUZZ ABOUT IT? >> THEY TRIED TO MOVE THE TRIAL TO NANTUCKET AT ONE POINT. YOU COULD BE ALMOST CERTAIN THAT THE VERDICT WILL BE APPEALED IF HE'S CONVICTED BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAME UP WAS A JUROR THAT TOLD THE JUDGE THAT WHILE SHE WAS STANDING IN LINE, SHE HEARD SOMEBODY MAKE A REMARK ABOUT LET'S GET IN AND FRY HIM AND BE DONE WITH IT. >> NEVER GOOD. >> LET THERE WILL BE A BASIS TO TRY TO MAKE AN APPEAL. BUT THE EVIDENCE AT THIS POINT BARRING A HUGE PERRY MASON MOMENT IS SO AGAINST NEIL ENTWISTLE. JUST FROM THE WORDS OF TODAY, YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE THEY WENT ON FOR TWO HOURS, DID NOTHING, WENT NOWHERE, BOUGHT NOTHING, CAME BACK AND FOUND HIS WIFE IN A SCENE WHERE THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING BEING DESERVED OR THE BABY DEAD. CALLS NO ONE. DOESN'T CALL 911. DOESN'T CALL HIS PARENTS, HER PARENTS, DRIVES OVER TO THEIR HOUSE TO COMMIT SUICIDE BUT ISN'T WILLING TO BREAK A WINDOW TO GET IN AND GET THE GUN. THEN DRIVES TO, OF ALL PLACES, TO FIND CONTEMPT LATIVE SOLACE, LOGAN AIRPORT. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE BEEN TO THE AIRPORT LATELY? >> I FIND AIRPORTS VERY RESTFUL. CONTEMPT LATIVE, SEW LACE? I LOVE THOSE WORDS. HE FOUND A WIFE AND BABY DEAD, MASSACRED. DOESN'T CHECK FOR VITAL SIGNS, HE DOESN'T TOUCH THEM. HE DOESN'T SAY, MY GOD, ARE YOU ALIVE, FEEL FOR A PULSE, NOTHING. HE COVERS THEM UP AND LEAVES. THEY WERE AT SIDE BAR. THEY'RE TRYING TO GET THE TAPE PLAYER ORGANIZED. THEY'RE HANDING OUT TRANSCRIPTS SO EVERYBODY CAN FOLLOW AGAIN Y ALL OF A SUDDEN NEIL ENTWISTLE STANDS UP WHEN ASKED TO SEE COUNSEL, THAT'S THE WAY OF SAYING SIDE BAR. HE GETS A REQUEST IN HONORED BY THE JUDGE. HE GETS TO WALK RIGHT UP IN THE BLUE SUIT. I'M NOT SO SURE WHY. WE COVERED ANOTHER CASE. NOT SURE WHAT IT IS WHEN THIS HAPPENS. DOES IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF JURORS SEE THE ACCUSED GOING UP TO THE BENCH? >> I THINK SO, YES. AND, IN FACT, I KNOW THE ATTORNEY IN NEW JERSEY ARGUED THIS CASE BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT IN NEW JERSEY. THERE, THE DEFENDANT HAD THE RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE IN HIS ENTIRE TRIAL. THAT INCLUDED ALL OF THE CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN THE PROSECUTOR, HIS OWN ATTORNEY, AND THE JUDGE. >> YOU'RE JUST A SMART LAWYER. ALL THAT STUFF IS SMART AND ACADEMIC. THE JURORS DON'T KNOW THIS STUFF. >> I THINK THAT THE JURORS ARE SEEING THE DEFENDANT OR THE ACCUSED PARTICIPATING IN THIS DEFENSE, LISTENING TO WHAT'S GOING ON. ALTHOUGH HE CAN'T SPEAK TO THE JUDGE TORE PROSECUTOR AT THOSE SIDE BAR MEETINGS. HE'S LISTENING. >> HE CAN'T SPEAK. >> HE CANNOT SPEAK. THE ATTORNEY DOES ALL OF THE SPEAKING FOR HIM. BUT IT SHOWS AN ACTIVE ROLE, CONSIDERATION, AN INTEREST IN HIS OWN DEFENSE WHICH WE'VE COVERED SOME CASES HERE TOGETHER WHERE WE DON'T SEE THAT. WE SEE STONE COLD DEFENDANTS OR PEOPLE GIGGLING IN THE MIDDLE OF THEIR TRIAL. >> I NEED TO ADD BECAUSE YOU BROUGHT IT UP -- WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO SHOW HIM BY THE TESTIMONY. WE'RE TOLD BY THE JUDGE THERE ARE CERTAIN ANGLES WE CAN SHOW, CERTAIN WE ARE NOT. WE CANNOT SHOW YOU THE FRONT VIEW OF NEIL ENTWISTLE'S FACE. WE CAN SHOW YOU THE BACKS AND SIDE BAR AND SHOW YOU THAT. A LOT OF THAT REACTION WE'RE MISSING HERE ON TV LAND. LET'S GO BACK IN. THERE'S ACTION IN THE COURTROOM. LET'S LISTEN. >> IT IS AS IMPORTANT AS IT HAS BEEN SINCE THE FIRST DAY OF THE CASE THAT YOU ADHERE TO ALL OF THE DISCUSSIONS WITH RESPECT TO DISCUSSING THE CASE OR REVIEWING ANY MEDIA REPORT RELATING TO THE CASE. THE JURORS SHOULD PASS THEIR TRANSCRIPTS DOWN TO THE COURT OFFICERS. HAVE A PLEASANT WEEKEND AND WE WILL SEE ALL OF YOU MONDAY MORNING AT 9:00. COURT WILL STAY IN SESSION. >> ALL RIGHT. >> WELL -- THAT'S A SURPRISE. BYE-BYE, JURY, AT 2:38 EASTERN TIME. I EXPECTED THEM TO GO UNTIL ABOUT 5:00 AS THEY NORMALLY DO. PERHAPS SOMETHING ELSE THEY NEED TO DEAL WITH, WHICH IS WHY THE JUDGE SAID COURT IS STILL IN SESSION. WHEN WE COME BACK AFTER THE BREAK, I'M GOING TO FIND OUT FROM BARRY NOLAN IN THE COURTROOM AND BEEN ABLE TO WATCH THE PROCEEDINGS WHAT'S BEEN THE REACTION OF THE JURORS. WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO SHOW THEM EITHER. COMING UP IN A MOMENT. >>> KNOW WHEN YOUR VCR BLINKS 12 IF YOU HAVE A VCR. THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE COURTROOM. THEY HAVE A TECHNICAL PROBLEM. YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO TO RESOLVE IT. >>> WELCOME BACK TO "BANFIELD & FORD." THEY'RE IN SESSION, THEY ARE NOT. JUDGES, JURIES, PROSECUTORS AND DEFENSE ATTORNEYS ARE NO DIFFERENT. THEY'RE HUMAN. WE DON'T ALL KNOW HOW TO HIT PLAY AND MAKE IT HAPPEN. A TAPE MACHINE IS GIVING THE BUG ABOOS TO THE JURY AND TO THE COURTROOM. SO INSTEAD OF TRYING TO FIX IT TODAY, WE'RE AHEAD OF SCHEDULE. THINGS ARE GOING WELL. WHY DON'T YOU TAKE A LONGER WEEKEND AND DISMISS THE JURY. COURT IS IN SESSION. THEY'RE GOING TO FIX A FEW THINGS. MAYBE FIX THAT TAPE PLAYER BEFORE THE DAY'S END. BARRY NOLAN, I'VE BEEN WONDERING WHAT THE JURY -- HOW THEY'VE BEEN REACTING TO SOME OF THE THINGS THEY'RE HEARING FROM THE MOUTH OF NEIL ENTWISTLE. IT'S ALMOST THE FIRST TIME THEY'VE HAD A REALLY CLEAR SOUND, JUST ANYTHING FROM THIS DEFENDANT. I KNOW THERE WAS SOMETHING PLAYED IN COURT EARLIER. IT WAS MUFFLED. NOW WE CAN HEAR AND MAKE OUT WHAT THEY WERE SAYING. HOW ARE THEY REACTING? >> THE JURY IS BEING ATTENTIVE IN THIS TRIAL. WHEN THEY LISTEN TO THE WORDS OF NEIL ENTWISTLE, THEY'RE ALLOWED TO GO ALONG WITH THE TRANSCRIPT THE JUDGE EXPLAINS TO THEM, THE TRANSCRIPT IS NOT EVIDENCE JOURKS TO LISTEN TO THE WORDS THAT NEIL SAYS. IT'S HARDER TO HEAR IN THE COURTROOM THAN IT IS AT HOME LISTENING TO YOUR BIG SCREEN TV. BUT THEY HAVE THE TRANSCRIPT IN FRONT OF THEM. PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION, NOT SHOWING A LOT OF EMOTION. A GOOD JURY. YESTERDAY THERE WAS A FASCINATING MOMENT WHEN THEY HAD SOME SCOTLAND YARD DETECTIVES DESCRIBING THE MOMENT WHEN NEIL ENTWISTLE WAS FINALLY ARRESTED FOR THIS CRIME. AND IN THE SLOW, PLODDING PRESENTATION OF EVIDENCE THAT YOU GET FROM POLICE DETECTIVES, IT REVEALED ITSELF TO ME LIKE A SCENE FROM THE HITCHCOCK MOVIE BECAUSE THEY FOUND OUT THAT HE WAS AT THIS SUBWAY STATION. THEY CALL IT THE UNDERGROUND THERE. IT WAS ABOVE GROUND. AND THEY GO OUT AND THEY MEET WITH THIS FRIEND OF HIS WITH THE UNLIKELY NAME OF DASH LONDON AND THEY ARRIVE JUST AS NEIL ENTWISTLE IS BASICALLY MAKING GOOD WITH GETTING AWAY. HE'S ON A TRAIN THAT'S PULLING OUT OF THE STATION AND YOU CAN JUST IMAGINE HIM UNTIL YOUR MOVIE LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW SEEING THE POLICE CARS ARRIVE. THEY CALL AHEAD TWO STATIONS, THEY GET THE TRAIN TO STOP, THEY LOCK THE DOORS SO NOBODY CAN LEAVE THE TRAIN. THE POLICE PULL UP. AND WITH A PICTURE OF NEIL ENTWISTLE THAT'S BEEN SENT TO THEM, SCOTLAND YARD DETECTIVES ARE WALKING DOWN CARRIAGE-BY-CARRIAGE LOOKING AT THE PICTURE AND YOU CAN IMAGINE NEIL ENTWISTLE SITTING THROUGH TRYING TO SORT OF HUNKER DOWN, FIND THEM, INTRODUCE THEMSELVES. IT'S A VERY DRAMATIC MOMENT IF YOU HAVE SOME IMAGINATION. >> I HAVE TO BE HONEST AS I LISTENED TO THAT TESTIMONY AND I HEARD THESE WONDERFUL INVESTIGATORS FROM LONDON, THEIR ACCENTS MAKE THEM SOUND LIKE MEMBERS OF, OH, I DON'T KNOW, MENSA. ARE YOU A MEMBER OF MENSA? >> WELL, YES, MA'AM. BUT IT MEANS YOU HAVE LOW TEST ANXIETY. >> I KNOW HOW TO FIND WALDO. THAT'S ABOUT IT. HOLD ON FOR A MINUTE. LET ME GET REMI IN ON THIS. AS WE WERE LISTENING TO THE TAPE TOGETHER, YOU AND I REMARKED ON HOW SLOW HE WAS AT RESPONDING. YOU CLEVERLY POINTED OUT THAT HE'S SEARCHING FOR THE RIGHT WORDS. >> THIS EVIDENCE MAY BE THE MOST COMPELLING, THE MOST OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE FOR THE STATE IN THIS CASE. NOT ONLY ARE WE HEARING THE DEFENDANT SPEAK, BUT IF YOU LISTEN AS WE'VE BEEN DOING, YOU'LL HEAR A PERSON SEARCHING SO HARD FOR THE RIGHT WORDS TO USE. >> STRUGGLING. >> HE IS, PERHAPS, TRYING TO REMEMBER A SCRIPT THAT HE HAD PLANNED OUT. PERHAPS HE'S STRUGGLING TO SOUND LIKE THIS IS ALL JUST NEW TO HIM AND IT DOESN'T UNDERSTAND. SOMEONE IS RELAYING THE EVENTS THAT THEY OBSERVED THAT WERE AWFUL OR HORRIFIC AS IT WAS IN THIS CASE, MAY NOT NEED THE NOW AFTER EVERY SENTENCE. >> HE IS GRIEVING. IT'S A MASSACRE IN HIS HOME. IT'S BIZARRE. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE US, BELIEVE YOUR OWN EARS. THIS IS, AGAIN, SOME OF THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE CONVERSATION YOU'VE BEEN LOOKING AT, YOU'VE HEARD IT WITH YOUR OWN EARS. NEIL ENTWISTLE WITH TROOPER MANNING. YOU ARE A REALLY GOOD INVESTIGATOR. IN ALL MY YEARS HERE, I HAVE NOT SEEN SOMEBODY THIS CAREFUL WITH ITS QUESTIONING, THIS DIRECT, THIS METHODICAL. YOU COVERED EVERY BASE. AWESOME, JUST AWESOME. IN ANY CASE, HERE'S NEIL ENTWISTLE'S ANSWERS TO SOME OF THE QUESTIONS, ESPECIALLY ABOUT THE QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW DID YOU FIND THE CONDITIONS OF THE UNCO RACHAEL -- WE HAVE A VERY SET ROUTINE WITH LILLY -- >> HMM, MMMM -- NOT GOOD. THAT'S HOW WE JOURNALISTS CALL IT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT PROSECUTORS OR DEFENSE ATTORNEYS CALL IT. BUT THE REST OF US, THE JURORS MAYBE, NOT GOOD. I AM WAITING, AGAIN, FOR THE DEFENSE CASE TO BEGIN. THAT MAGICAL RABBIT TO PULL OUT OF THE HAT. IN THE MEANTIME, I HAVE TO SAY THANK YOU TO OUR GUESTS. BARRY NOLAN, GREAT TO SEE YOU. I LOVE YOUR PERSPECTIVE. NOT THE LAST, WE'RE GOING TO SEE YOU AGAIN. REMI SPENCER, A PLEASURE. I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU AGAIN AS WELL. REMIND EVERYBODY, YOU CAN CONTINUE TO WATCH THE LIVE TRIAL, BEGINS ON LINE, 3:00 P.M. EASTERN TIME. IT'S A GREAT WEBSITE TO GO TO ANYWAY. IN THE MEANTIME, HAVE YOURSELF A VERY GOOD WEEKEND. BACK HERE AT 1:00 EASTERN TIME. JACK WILL BE BACK. THANKS FOR WATCHING, TAKE CARE. |