|
|||||||
|
|
|
|||||
|
|
|||||||
|
|||||||
|
|
|
|||||
|
|
|||||||
|
>>> today on "the best defense," A father accused of fatally Shooting his wife and baby Daughter but is neil entwistle Wrongly accused? We're live in massachusetts for Day one of his murder trial and the best defense This is "the best defense." On January 22nd, 2006, 27-year-old rachel entwistle and Her nine month old daughter Lillian were discovered shot to Death in their massachusetts Home, but rachel's husband neil Was nowhere to be found. He surfaced the following day in His native England, and he soon Became the prime suspect in his Wife and child's murders. Entwistle denies having anything To do with the crime. He says look, I simply panicked After finding the bodies and Fled to my homeland. Day one of his murder trial, now Under way. Beth karas joins us with the Very latest. Beth, good morning to you. We have heard the openings, Prosecution opened long. Defense opened short. No big surprises there, right? >> reporter: right. No big surprises. The detail that michael fabbri For the prosecution outlined in His opening has been disclosed Already. Doesn't mean he doesn't have More to expound on through the Witnesses, but we really didn't Learn anything new. The defense Also not surprising, that they Didn't put forth a theory, Emphasized that rachel and neil Entwistle had the businesses Together, jointly used those Laptops. It is presumed, assumed, that Neil entwistle was the user for All of those searches and it may Be proven to be the case, but Elliot weinstein leaves open the Possibility that rachel may also Have been engaged in some of These online businesses as well As searches. >> before we go back to the Courtroom, I just want to Address some of the more Inflammatory allegations that Have been made in the course of The opening statements and to do That, I want to bring in one of My guests. Dr. Buzz, we heard that neil Entwistle allegedly sees his Wife and baby daughter shot to Death, lying there in their Beds. He panics, drives to the Airport, goes to England. Obviously it looks very Suspicious. But it's also consistent, isn't It, with somebody having a total Psychotic break? The worst thing in your life has Just happened to you and what You do is basically, you go back Home to mom. That's not unbelievable, is it? >> no, it isn't. Oftentimes when people are faced With these horrific events, they Seek some kind of safe place. Whatever that safe place is. They're in isolation and they Want to get away. Doesn't necessarily mean they're Guilty because they flee the Scene that has caused them this Trauma. It means they're seeking a safe Place. Usually that has to do with our Childhood or family. Where we feel we have support, Where we have a sense of Belonging, where we feel there's Love and where that history of Love existed. It could be towards your Parents, it could be actually Back to where you grew up as a Child. It could be many, many things to That individual, but to answer Your question, no, it doesn't Mean the person is necessarily Guilty because they flee and They go back to where they grew Up. They go back to their parents. They go back to where they are Loved. >> okay. Jeff mandell, my criminal Defense colleague, welcome back To the show. So good to have you here. You're a regular here. Financial motive, oftentimes in These cases you see a family Deeply in debt and apparently The entwistles were and then you Find insurance policies in the Name of the wife and daughter, All kinds of things, but you Don't see that here, right? Neil entwistle didn't gain any Money by the deaths of his wife And child except relieving Himself of some obligation? >> right. That's what's so interesting. There's nothing which will show Additional premeditation which The state likes to show. They like to find insurance Policy. It does not exist here. Poor people, just because you're Poor, doesn't mean you commit Crimes. That's always a problem with the State's case when they try to Make it look because you're poor And doesn't have money, you Committed a crime. >> beth karas, we say over and Over again, this is a Circumstantial case. Indeed it is. There's no confession as far as We know, no video, no eyewitness To the actual killing, but Virtually every premeditated Murder case ends up being a Circumstantial evidence case, Right? >> reporter: yes. Circumstantial evidence doesn't Mean it's weak. Circumstantial evidence can be Actually better than direct Evidence because there are Plenty of cases where witnesses Are simply mistaken. Talking about eyewitnesses, when You have some sort of direct Evidence, when it's a strong Circumstantial case, it's Largely irrefutable. >> jeff, we will hear a lot of Salacious details about neil Entwistle looking at porn sites, Setting up porn sites, possibly Soliciting sex. At one point he says he was in The secret service. I guess that's right. The service he was providing Indeed was a secret. But when all is said and done, The fact that a guy is Patronizing prostitutes, that's Not a motive for killing his Wife. >> certainly not. It's my understanding the jurors Are fairly young. These are people who are on the Internet. You click on something you think Is innocent on the internet, you Are redirected to a pornographic Site. It could happen. I've heard it happen. >> I've never heard of that Before. >> it does happen to people. The bottom line is I think young People who are familiar with the Internet understand how Prevalent those sites are and How many people visit them. >> beth karas, I'm looking at The jury makeup here. It seems of the 16, about half Of them knew something about the Case, about half of them knew Almost nothing about the case. Am I right about that? >> reporter: that's right. And people who knew something About the case and then admitted That they had a bias or had Prejudged the case were excused. So those who knew something About the case, not unusual. This is a county where the crime Happened, this is not a change Of venue, it was so widely Reported here, so widely known That it would be virtually Impossible to get people who Didn't know something about it. The key, of course, is they Hadn't formed any opinions or if They had, they were willing to Set anything aside. So the defense used all their 16 Peremptories. They're not happy with the jury Pool in general. Just because the jury got seated Doesn't mean the defense is Happy with all 16 jurors. >> we should be getting back in The courtroom in just a moment. There will be more from neil Entwistle's murder trial after a Very short break. Let us know what you think about >>> welcome back to "the best Defense." The prosecution has called their First witness, priscilla Matterazzo, the mother of Rachel. She just finished reciting her Background and history. Let's go inside the courtroom And listen. >> less than a year, probably More like six months. >> does your husband, joseph, See those two children and his Other children? >> yes, he does. Quite often. >> how often does he see in Particular anthony and zachary? >> we saw them, he took them Every other week from the time I've known him and he speaks to Them at least a few times during The week. >> is that every other week Arrangement up to the present Time? >> yes, but a little less often Now that they're older. >> and michael, where does Michael live? >> michael lives in addleboro, Massachusetts. >> how old is he? >> michael is 33. >> and what about joseph? >> joe jr., he lives in Abington. He's 38. >> fair to say they have Families of their own? >> yes, they do. >> and you mentioned your Daughter, rachel. When was rachel born? >> December 14th, 1978. >> where did she grow up? >> kingston, massachusetts. >> did she attend high school There? >> yes, she did. Silver lake regional. >> after she went to high School, did she continue her Education? >> she continued her education At holy cross in worcester, Massachusetts. >> what degree was she pursuing? >> a bachelor's. >> did she attend full four Years at holy cross? >> yes, she did. >> did she spend all of the time At holy cross did she study Elsewhere through holy cross? >> she studied her third year, Junior year, she did abroad Through holy cross in york, England. >> what did she study when she Was over there? >> it was still part of her Liberal arts degree. >> did she participate in any Extracurricular activities? >> she did. She was on the crew team at holy Cross and continued on the crew Team at university of york. >> did she eventually complete That last year over in the uk And graduate from holy cross? >> she completed her junior year There. They did an entire year there. Then she came back to holy cross For her senior year and Graduated. >> can you describe the Relationship that you and your Daughter, rachel, had? >> rachel and I had a very good Relationship. We spoke most -- not every day But at least every other or Third day. It was just the three of us After her father died, so we Were close. We did a lot together. We relied on each other. >> and her relationship with her Brother, jerome? >> she had a very good Relationship with him. >> how did rachel get along with Your second husband, joe Matterazzo? >> very well. >> what about the other members Of the matterazzo family? Can you describe the Relationship between them, each Other, and rachel? >> they all get along fine. They are a good family unit. We took time to get to know each Other. She was older, jerome was away At school. The other children lived at Different addresses, so we Didn't -- weren't together every Day, but they all got along Well. >> for the year that rachel Spent over at york university, Do you know whether she met a Particular individual who became A friend? >> yes. >> who was that? >> she met neil entwistle. >> when did she meet neil Entwistle? >> when she joined the crew Team. It's where they met. >> that would have been her Junior year? >> yes. >> do you see the neil entwistle That rachel met during her Junior year over in europe at York university, do you see him In court? >> yes, I do. >> can you point him out? >> he has a white shirt on, blue Tie and a dark suit. >> could the record reflect she Has identified the defendant, Your honor? Thank you. When did you first meet the Defendant? >> we didn't meet neil until After rachel -- after she Graduated holy cross, she went Back to England to get her Teaching certificate. >> what year was that, if you Recall? >> that would have been 2001. >> how was it that you met the Defendant, neil entwistle? Did he come over to the united States? >> yes. He came to the states. One christmas. >> at some point in time, did The relationship change between Friends to something else Between your daughter, rachel, And the defendant? >> it did, during the year that She was there, her junior year. >> what did it change to? >> became more than friends. They were dating. >> for a period of time, did That relationship continue? >> yes. It continued her senior year, She was in touch with him quite Often. She was back in the states. >> when she was back here, did She stay in touch with him? >> yes, she did. >> how many times did you have An opportunity to see or meet With the defendant during that Period of time? >> not at all during that period Of time. Her senior year of college, no, I didn't. It was later than that. It was after she had graduated Holy cross. >> you had mentioned that she Had returned to the uk for Another year of study? >> yes, she did. >> what year was that? >> would have been 2001. Right after she graduated holy Cross. >> what was the purpose of that Year? >> she went back there to get Her teaching certificate so that She could teach in the united Kingdom. >> what if any relationship did She continue to have with the Defendant? >> she -- they dated, they were Together quite often. They had separate dorm -- they Were in different buildings, Actually, but quite often when i Called her or she called me, he Would be there with her. >> what was the defendant Studying, if you know? >> computer engineering. >> did you have an occasion During that period of time to Meet the defendant? >> no. Not then. >> when was it that you Eventually met him and saw him Again? >> it was christmas. I can't remember if it was the First year, 2001 when she went Back. I don't remember if it was Christmas of '01 or '02. >> did rachel eventually finish Her additional year of studies To get her teaching certificate? >> yes, she did. >> after that, what did she do? Did she return home or did she Stay over in the uk? >> she came home for just for a Few weeks, for a visit, but went Back to the uk. >> what was her reason for going Back there? >> she and neil were going to Live together and get a job, Both get jobs. Neil had graduated that same Year with his degree. >> did they begin living Together? >> yes. >> where did they live? >> in malvern. >> and did rachel get a job? Did she have work? >> she did get a job in September, that first year, Teaching. >> where was she working? >> st. Augustine's. >> what city or town was that In? >> I believe it was hezlington. >> what grade or grades did she Teach, what subjects? >> it was a catholic school but A public catholic school. She taught what they considered There high school. It was ages 13 to 16. >> was the defendant working During that period of time? >> yes. >> where was he working? >> I don't -- I'm not sure. >> at some point in time, did You have an occasion to see or Meet him again? >> yes, he did come over to the States again. >> what year was that? If you recollect. >> it was -- it was '02. >> did their relationship Continue into 2002 and 2003? >> yes, it did. >> did you have an occasion Through seeing the defendant and Rachel together and learning About their relationship through Conversations, understand there Was going to be a change in the Relationship? >> yes. >> what did you learn? >> they spoke of getting Married, and living, continuing To live in the united kingdom. >> did they eventually get Married? >> they did, in August of '03. >> where did they get married? >> they got married in plymouth, Massachusetts. >> so I take it the defendant Came over here? >> yes, he did. >> whether or not his family Joined him during the wedding Over here? >> they did join him. >> did he and rachel spend a Period of time over here before And during the wedding? >> yes. They both came over for her Bridal shower, which was in April of '03. They were both here for probably About two weeks. >> as you can see, the Prosecution starting its case From the very beginning. We will take a short break, get You right back inside the >>> welcome back to "the best Defense." Priscilla matterazzo on the Witness stand being questioned Very gently about her life, her History and of course, her Family and the relations between Neil and his wife. Let's go back inside the Courtroom and listen. >> did you go along with someone Else? >> I went over with rachel's Girlfriend from holy cross, Joanna gately. >> how much time did you spend Over there? >> I spent two weeks. Joanna only stayed one week. >> you met lillian? >> yes, I did. >> it looks like he's getting Ready to show her an exhibit, a Document, to refresh her Recollection or otherwise sort Of review things to prepare her For the next round of testimony Which begins now. >> who is that? >> my daughter, rachel with her Daughter, my granddaughter, Lillian rose. >> do you know when that picture Was taken? >> it was taken somewhere in November or very early December Of '06. No, sorry, '05. >> how old was lillian in that Photograph? >> probably about eight months Old. >> what about rachel in that Photograph? >> rachel would be about 27. >> is that a fair and accurate Representation of how they Looked in the fall of 2005? >> yes. >> I would like to mark this as The first exhibit, your honor. >> no objection. >> it may be marked. >> may I display it? >> yes. >> are all the jurors able to See the screen? All right. >> one of the most important Things in a murder trial is to Humanize the victims rather than Simply pretending that they Don't exist or they're just Decedents so there's photographs Of the victims in happier times. Right now, that photograph was Admitted, it's being published To the jury so the jury can see It and testimony continues. >> did you remain in contact With rachel, the defendant, During the period of time Following that up to August of 2005? >> oh, yes. >> how regular were you in Contact with them? >> if not every day, probably Every other day. >> did you learn sometime Between April and August of 2005 That a decision was made as to The entwistle family and where They would live? >> yes. >> what did you learn? >> they had decided to move to The states, to live here. >> and when did they begin to Make the move to the states? >> the decision was made when I Was there when lillian was born, And so after that, rachel of Course after having lillian, Didn't go back to work, so she Stayed home and they started Making plans to finish there and Come over here. >> do you know the reason or Reasons they decided to move to The United States? >> we discussed the fact that Neil could probably have better Opportunity here for jobs, Advancing his career, and they Wanted lillian to be around her And grow up with her family. >> what discussions were had Concerning where the family Would live when they returned to The United States, when they Came to the United States, I Should say? >> well, we've seen sort of the Very beginning of the story, how The family met, what they did When they met and the decision Ultimately to move back to the United states, a decision that Ultimately was a very fateful One. Jeff mandell, this is a good way To tell the story, isn't it? >> it's not only a good way. If you've noticed, they now have A photo of the victims in front Of the jury. I'm curious when defense counsel Will get up and ask when that Display can be removed. We also see a wonderful witness. She is just very calm and Sympathetic and just setting the Groundwork for what the state's Case will eventually be. >> well, I think we're about to Go back in live. Let's take a listen. >> where were they going to Live? >> they were going to stay at my House with me and my husband, Joseph, when they first came Over. >> you mentioned that rachel Didn't go back to work after she Had lillian. >> no, she did not. >> what about the defendant? Did he continue to work up Through the summer of 2005? >> yes, he did. >> at some point in time, he Left his job? >> yes. >> when was that? >> August 1st of '05. >> when did rachel and lily move To the United States? >> they came here the first part Of August, somewhere the 5th, 6th, 7th, somewhere in there. >> did the defendant remain in The uk for a period of time? >> he stayed there for the month To pack the apartment and wrap Up whatever business needed to Be done. >> when rachel and lillian came To the United States, I take it They moved into your carver Home? >> yes, they did. >> and what date, if you recall, Did the defendant arrive in the United states? >> it was soon after labor day, Within the first few days after. >> sometime in early September Of 2005? >> September, yes. >> did you and your husband, Joseph, then make Accommodations, make Arrangements and adjustments in Your house in terms of where They would live? >> yes, we did. >> describe, if you could, your Home in a general sense. >> it is a cape. When you first come in, it has a Two-car garage and a family room Between the garage and the main House. >> so the garage is attached to The main house through the Family room? >> it's attached but you have to Go outside to get into the Garage from the family room. >> is there any living space or Usable space above the garage? >> yes, there is. We had put in an office above The garage. >> what about the balance of the House other than the garage and The family room? >> there is a bedroom on the First floor and bathroom on the First floor with a living and Dining room, and rachel's Bedroom was on the first floor. That's where, when she moved Back with neil and the baby, That's where they stayed. That was their room. The basement has a finished Family room. There's two bedrooms upstairs And a full bath. >> and can you just generally Describe the yard and any Buildings apart from the house? >> the backyard, there's a Sizeable front yard. It's back off the street. The backyard, there is a Swimming pool that is no longer Functional but is fenced in. Beyond that, is a barn that has Five stalls, a horse barn with a Loft above. Then corrals on either side of The barn. >> do you have any horses? >> no. >> when the defendant, neil Entwistle, arrived in the united States, was he working? >> no, he wasn't. >> what about rachel? Did she seek employment? >> no, she didn't. She was still being paid by her School because her paychecks, The way they had worked it out, Came. She still had, I think, August Was her last pay period the way It worked out. >> what if anything did the Defendant do for income when he First arrived in September of 2005? >> nothing that I know of. >> did he have any sort of Business entities that you Became aware of? >> when he was in England, he Had started a company, embedded Technologies, with another guy That he knew there, and he was Going to try to continue that in The states. >> and did he continue that in The states based on what you saw On a day-to-day basis in your Carver home? >> I thought so, because he set Up the office area with his Computer and he was up there Quite often, most of the day. >> what sort of computer did he Have? Was it a personal computer or Laptop? >> it was a laptop. >> and how much time would the Defendant spend up in that Office? Talking about in terms of September into October, into the Fall of 2005. >> he was up there most every Day for some part of the day, I Would say at least five or six Hours a day. >> do you know what sort of Product or service that this Company, you said embedded Technologies, what sort of Product or service did it Provide, based on what you knew? >> I didn't know that much about It. He had explained that it was a Small adapter that went on to The back of a computer, but I'm Not that computer-savvy so it Didn't mean much. >> was the company referred to By that name, embedded Technologies, or did you also Know it by initials? >> yes. They were initials of emt, I Believe. >> emt? >> yes. >> do you know whether or not Your daughter, rachel, did any Work for the defendant's Company, emt? >> no, I don't believe so. >> did she have an occasion to Spend any time or much time up In that office on the computer? >> not much time. I had a computer up there also, And she would occasionally while Lillian was napping go up to E-mail friends, but it was not More than a half hour. >> so as far as you knew, she Wasn't working for or doing, Didn't have any employment Associated with the company emt? >> no. >> where do you work? >> I work for harbor medical Associates in braintree, Massachusetts. >> was the name different back In 2005-2006? >> yes, it was. It was highland medical Associates. >> how long have you worked for That company? >> 17 years. >> what do you do for the Company? >> I'm a medical assistant. >> how many other people work at That company? >> probably about 15. >> how many days a week were you Working, again back in the fall Of 2005 into the early part of 2006? That's the time I'm referring To. >> I worked four ten-hour days. >> well, time for a short break And a look at our 13th juror Question. Today, we want to know, is Entwistle's flight to England Evidence of guilt? So far, 92% of you are saying Yes. 8% are voting no. >>> 27-year-old rachel entwistle And her nine month old daughter Murdered in their home. Did her husband commit the >>> welcome back to "the best Defense." This is ron kuby. Priscilla matterazzo still on The witness stand. In the short time that we were Gone, she was explaining that She had given a set of her house Keys to neil and rachel. This is going to become much More significant later on as the Prosecution tries to establish That neil entwistle got access To the matterazzo home in order To obtain what they claim to be The murder weapon. Let's go back inside the Courtroom and listen. >> just to bring lillian in and To see everyone. Everybody, rachel had worked at My office one summer, she knew Most of the people. She knew everybody there. They all knew her. They wanted to see the baby. During her pregnancy, she had Always kept pictures on the Website that every morning, we Would pull up to see her. This is at work, so everybody Knew her so everybody wanted to Meet the baby. >> did they have an occasion to Meet the defendant during those Visits? >> yes. >> and did that include all of Your co-workers at the office? >> yes. >> about how many work there, Again, back in the fall of '05? >> 15. >> what about your husband, joe? Would he visit you at your Office in braintree from time to Time? >> yes. >> how frequently? >> probably a couple times a Month. >> for what purpose? >> sometimes he was a patient of The doctors there so he would Come in for blood work. A lot of times he would come by Just to have lunch with me. >> could you shift back to the Keys. You had mentioned a spare set of Keys. Do you know whether or not Rachel and the defendant were Aware of that spare key? >> yes. >> had you told them about it? >> I had told rachel about it, Yes. >> do you know whether or not They used it at any point in Time? >> yes. Rachel had to use it once when She got locked out of the house With lillian. >> I take it you and your Husband have a telephone at your Home? >> yes. >> and what is the phone number For the record? >> 508-866-xxxx. >> and the actual address, the Number and name of the street? >> xx tremont street, carver. >> and whether or not rachel and The defendant, did they have Their own phone in the home? >> not a land line, no. >> did they have a cell phone? >> eventually. >> when did they get that? >> sometime in November. >> this would be 2005? >> yes. >> would you from time to time Call them on that telephone? On the cell phone? >> yes. >> would you receive phone calls From them on that cell phone? >> yes. >> now, your husband, joe, in The fall of 2005, did he have Any hobbies? >> hobbies? Yes. >> what hobby or hobbies did he Have? >> he has his hobby of antique Cars, hotrods, building, Restoring cars and he would do Target shooting. >> where would he do the target Shooting? Did he join a club? >> he joined a club. >> what club did he join, if you Recall the name of it. >> pembroke country club. >> where was that located? >> pembroke. >> do you remember when he Joined? >> October -- end of September, October of '05. >> how frequently would he go? >> maybe one day a week, on the Weekend. >> Saturday or Sunday? >> usually saturdays. >> would he go himself? Would he go with someone else? >> he would take either anthony Or zachary, sometimes meet my Brother there. >> what sort of gun or guns did He have that you're aware of? >> I don't know. I don't recognize -- I don't Know guns. >> did he have more than one? >> yes. >> where would he keep those Guns? >> they were kept upstairs in Our bedroom. >> were they secured up there? >> yes. >> do you know whether he had Any locks that went along or Keys that went along with those Firearms? >> yes. >> where were those keys kept? >> in the kitchen on one of the Counters. >> can you describe the kitchen As it relates to the dining Room, in particular, and the Family room, that area of your Home? >> the kitchen, the family room And the dining room were Separate rooms, but not by a Full wall. There was a half wall between The kitchen and the family room, And a half wall into the dining Room that has a large pine shelf About halfway, half wall. >> what if anything would he Keep on that shelf? >> he would keep his change from The day, his business cards, Anything that he used to keep in His pocket, he would empty his Pockets. >> is that where he kept the Keys that you referred to that Went along with his guns? >> yes. >> did you have any interest in, Back in 2005-2006, any interest In your husband joe's firearms? >> not at all. >> what about your daughter, Rachel? Did she have any interest? >> no. Not at all. >> did she ever go shooting with Him? >> no. >> do you know if she ever Touched or handled those Firearms? >> no. She didn't. >> and what about the defendant? Did he have any interest in Those firearms? >> yes. >> and describe that, if you Could, please. >> he would go to the gun club With joe and the boys and target Practice, whatever they were Doing there. >> how many occasions do you Recall him going, if you Remember, in the fall of 2005? >> twice. >> in terms of transportation, Did rachel and the defendant Have a motor vehicle? Let's talk about September 2005, When they first arrived. >> no, they did not. >> at some point in time, did They get a motor vehicle? >> yes. >> what did they get? >> an x-3 bmw. The suv. >> when did they get it? >> early November. >> that would be 2005? >> yes. >> if you know, did they buy it Or lease it? >> it was leased. >> and what about -- strike That. >> there's going to be a lot of Back and forth in the course of Her testimony as she looks at Photographs to identify Photographs, lay the proper Foundation so they can be Admitted before the jury. Let's go back inside the Courtroom and listen. >> it was the car that neil and Rachel leased. >> in the fall of 2005? >> yes. >> is that the motor vehicle Displayed on that exhibit? >> yes, it is. >> thank you. Do you know whether they Continued to own that motor Vehicle from the fall into the Winter of 2005, in January of 2006? >> yes, they did. >> did you have an occasion to Become familiar with rachel and The defendant's finances, who Paid the bills and the like During the period of time that They were living with you and Your husband, joe, in the fall Of 2005? >> yes. >> and did they have any banking Accounts? >> yes. They had opened a checking and Savings account. >> where was that? What bank, if you remember? >> sovereign bank. >> and had you had any accounts With rachel prior to that? >> yes. Rachel and I had a joint savings Account at citizens bank. >> what was the reason for that Account? >> while she was abroad, that I Could pay any bills that needed To be. She actually got it when she was In college so that she could Have money. >> did she have any loans from When she was in college? >> yes, she did. >> do you know how much she had As of the fall of 2005? >> it was approximately $17,000. >> and at some point, was the Defendant added to the citizens Account, if you know? >> yes. >> and what about the day-to-day Involvement of paying the bills And that like? What do you know, if you do Know, of their practice? >> that it seemed that they Discussed monthly bills and they Paid them, I had seen them, they Came in the house one night when Neil was making supper and Rachel was paying bills, and I Laughed at her because she Wasn't making the supper. She said he's better at that and I'm better at this. >> and whether or not you're Aware of any credit cards that They had? >> they had credit cards. >> do you know what companies or What names, if you recall. >> rachel had an at & t Universal card that she had had Since college. And I believe there was also a Capital one. >> you and your husband made Certain financial arrangements With your daughter, rachel and The defendant in terms of their Living and providing to the Household? >> yes. >> what was that arrangement? >> they were going to pay $350 a Month and they would buy what Food they needed outside of what I bought for the house, and they Purchased what foods lillian Needed. >> having the opportunity to Spend time living with them in The fall of 2005, seeing them Deal with their finances, did You become familiar with the Defendant's handwriting? >> yes. >> did you have an occasion to See it from time to time? >> yes. >> what's probably going to Happen now, he's going to be Showing her a document and Asking her to authenticate Specific handwriting. You're allowed to do this as a Lay witness. You don't have to be a Handwriting expert as long as You're actually familiar with The handwriting in question. Let's go back inside the Courtroom and listen. While they're doing that and While she's looking over that Document, we will take a short >>> next on "the best defense," A father accused of fatally Shooting his wife and baby Daughter. But is neil entwistle an Innocent man? We're live for day one of his >>> it's like a paint. A dot of paint here, a dot of Paint there. Slowly over time it comes into Focus. We heard about keys, we heard About guns. Both of which are fairly Significant, no? >> indeed they are. The gun used to kill rachel and Lillian entwistle comes from her Husband, rachel's stepfather gun Collection at home. It's a .22 caliber colt Revolver. It had entwistle's dna on the Grip, not the trigger. Her husband's dna is on the Trigger. And the dna of rachel on the Muzzle. There was some blood and other Tissue blowback from the shot Fired it was put back in the gun Case, neil entwistle knew where The guns were, where the key was To it because he lived in their Home for three months a little Over that, before moving into The linton home. The keys to the house, rachel And neil had their own keys so They could come to go. And neil said he had gone to That home to talk to the inlaws. That's one statement. Another statement is he wanted To get the gun to kill himself. He wanted to tell priss sill la What happened, what he found. Could not find her office, get In the house. Keys to the house were in his Car, which he abandoned at logan International airport. >> thank you, beth. Let's get back into the Courtroom. Still watching, jeffrey manmand And dr. Buzz. Stand by as we go back live to The testimony of priscilla Matterazzo. >> do you know if he had any Interviews during that period of Time in December? >> yes sh, one. >> one interview? >> yes. >> where was that? If you know? >> I don't know, other than up Near hopkinton. >> do you remember being at home One day when he had that Interview? >> yes. He had left quite early in the Morning, between 6:00, 6:30. And was home by early afternoon, Maybe around 1:00, 2:00. >> when he came home in the Afternoon, did he speak to you About that interview? >> no. He didn't have much to say about It. Didn't say who wit was with, or Who he had spoken to or anything About the people or place. >> following that day, did you Speak to the defendant at all About that interview? >> no. I don't think so. >> did he say anything to you or Bring it up at all after that? >> no. >> into early January of 2006, Did he have any interviews or Interview schedule? >> yes. >> and tell us about that, if You could. >> he had an interview scheduled January 20th, a Friday. They were already living in the P Hopkinton house. It was from a company in Littleton who were hoping to get A contract with motorola. He was going to meet with that First person in littleton and They were going together to the Other company. And they were -- the gentleman From the first company had to Convince them that they knew Somebody or had an employee that Could do the type of contract That they had available. >> was your understanding that That was scheduled for January 20th? >> yes. >> 2006. >> yes. >> when did the defendant and Richal begin moving into the Hopkinton home physically? >> my husband moved them up on January 7th. And I watched lillian for the Day. >> and anybody else help with The move? >> anthony, joe's son anthony. And rachel's friend, michelle And her fiance met them up there And helped a little bit one Afternoon. >> do you know where they were Moving items from to have them Relocated to the hopkinton home? Was it from your carver home And/or elsewhere? >> some of them came from our Home because all their property From England had been shipped to My home. But my girlfriend, teresa pratt Offered a number of items Because she just moved in with Her fiance. She had couches, kichtchen tabl That she offered them. >> do you know the day they Eventually moved into the house And finished sleeping on a Regular basis at your carver Home and began staying at a Permanent basis at the hopkinton Home? >> that was Wednesday, January 11th. >> the 11th or the 12th? >> yes. >> do you remember it being a Wednesday? >> yes. >> do you know why they waited Until that date? >> they had to wait until their Furniture was delivered. They were having a bed delivered And an office desk unit. >> did you at any point in time Go to that hopkington home and Assist in the move? >> I went up on Tuesday, before They moved in. Joe had moved them up on Saturday. That following Tuesday I did go Up there with them because I'm Off on tuesdays. And I helped set up the kitchen. And you said that Saturday was The 7th? >> yes. I believe so. >> to the suz following the 7th You went up there. Did you go along with someone Else? >> I rode up with neil, rachel And the baby. >> did you spend a period of Time there? >> we spent the afternoon and Into early evening. >> who was at the home. >> rachel was there, neil, the Baby, and my niece, kendra came Up to meet them there. >> and what did you do in Assisting in setting up the Home? >> we had taken a lot of the Dishes, kitchenware out of the Boxes, put it into the Dishwasher, run tshit, taken itt And put it in the cupboards. >> was the defendant there that Day? >> yes, he was. >> what did you see him doing in Connection with the move? >> I saw him upstairs putting Some lamps together for the Spare bedrooms. >> did you have an occasion to See or get a tour of the house? >> yes. >> and can you describe it, just In general terms, the various Floors and rooms? >> the -- it had a two-car Garage underneath the house. So we would drive into the Garage and come into the house Through the garage into a foyer. Off of there, to the right, off Of there was a small area that Had the furnace room. Sliders out to the backyard Where there was a hot tub. It had a full bath on that Floor, just off of the sliders. And a small room beside the Bathroom that they were going to Set up as neil's office area. Stairs from that would go up -- Went upstairs into the home, Entered just off the kitchen and The foyer. There was a living room, a Family room, a foyer a kitchen On the first floor. A half bath, washer room. >> what about the second floor? >> the second floor was four Bedroo Bedrooms. >> upstairs? >> four bedrooms, two full Baths, and a walk-in closet in The master bedroom. >> the master bedroom, what end Of the house was it located on As viewed from the front? >> if you were looking at the Front door, it was the top left. >> exhibit 495. >> if you need to, step down -- >> we will take a short break. Stay with us. We'll be right back with more Live coverage of the state of Massachusetts versus neil To progressive.Com! Did you find I did. [ bell ringing ] We have a savings [ on p.A. ] You know, that comes Local response And 24/7 live support, Wow! I say it louder. Have a great day! Lots of extra features That don't cost you extra. Now, that's progressive. When you have You have to run around town Track down a rental car, And then you To see if your car With progressive, To their Give them a call, And they give you Progressive even Taking care of everything And that's progressive. Call or click today. >>> welcome back to "the best Defense." I'm ron kuby. Priscilla matterazzo, the very First witness, still on the Witness stand, basically Narrating the day-to-day life of The entwistle family as she Observed them. The striking thing thus far in Her testimony, she hasn't Offered any examples of any Marital strife or discord thus Far. Let's go back inside the Courtroom and listen. >> we stayed until around 4:00. >> who was there when you were There, other than you and your Sister pam? >> rachel, neil and lillian. >> what did you do while you Were there? >> we had lunch together. And we -- rachel and my sister And lillian and I, we stayed Together and talked and played With the baby. >> and what about the defendant? Did he spend some time with you And your sister? >> other than having lunch with Us, no. He was downstairs in the office Area because they were setting In the phone lines that day. >> the phone and computer lines? >> yes. >> did you have occasion go Downstairs at some point that Day? >> we did go down when we first Got there, rachel wanted to show Pam the house. We went through the whole house. Neil was downstairs then in the Office area at that point. >> can you describe the Condition of the downstairs area When you were brought down There, you and your sister pam Were brought down there by Rachel? >> it wasn't set up yet. There was just boxes in there. Some equipment, like computer Equipment, wires, small hand Tools. >> so, again, a description of a Perfectly normal family. Perfectly calm relationship. Right now it looks like the Prosecutor is showing an exhibit To ms. Matterazzo. My guess is that it's probably Some sort of layout of schematic Of the house. If you're wondering what is the Significance of all this Testimony about who was doing What where, I think the Prosecution is trying to Establish that neil entwistle Had his own computer, his own Computer systems. He was the one who worked on These computers, and only the One who worked on the computers From the beginning of the time They were set up. Let's go back inside the >> can you take a look at that Diagram? It's marked c for Identification. >> yes. >> do you recognize what that Shows? >> the floor plan of the Hopkinton house. >> which floor of the hopkinton House does that represent? >> that's the basement floor. >> if you need to stand down, if You could, you mentioned a Garage earlier. Attached to the house. Do you see that depicted on That? >> yes. >> if you could, point out the Different rooms on that floor Including the garage. >> are all the jurors able to See this diagram? All right. >> this is the garage area, the Door that enters into the house From the garage. The garage is here. This is just a foyer. It went off over this way Towards an open area that had Sliders off of it with the hot Tub out here. Behind it was the full bath and The small room over here, this They were using as neil's office Area. The stairs would go up to the First floor. >> using this marker, could you Put the number 1 -- actually Just write office in the box That you had pointed to showing Us the office location. And you mentioned the area near The sliding doors. Can you describe the condition Of that area that day? >> there were a lot of boxes in Here, things that had not been Unpacked. >> packing boxes? >> yeah. >> any furniture in there that You recall? >> there was an office chair. What about the furnishings or Items, if any, that were in the Area that you marked office. What was in there when you went Down there that day with your Sister pam? >> was a desk unit, a new desk Unit. >> any other equipment in there? >> the computer and the wires And so forth needed to hitch Everything up. >> when you refer to the Computer, who's computer? >> neil's computer. >> his laptop? >> yes. >> when you went down there that Day, where was neil? >> he was in the office. >> now, they've established sort Of where everything is in Relationship to everything else. I think he'll probably continue Questioning. Let's go back inside and listen. >> how much time? >> probably about six hours. >> what were you doing? >> we were talking, playing with The baby. Had lunch. >> did you see the defendant at All the balance of the day? >> he came up and had lunch with Us and went back downstairs. >> what was his demeanor like When you saw him at lunch? >> fine. He was friendly. He joined in the conversation. >> did you see him at the end of The day before you left? >> yes. Just as we were leaving. >> what time was it that you Left that day? >> between 4:00 and 4:30. >> and how long did it take you To get from the hopkinton house To the carver house? >> an hour. >> what route did you travel? >> if I could just step back to The 16th. What time did you get there? You mentioned that when you Arrived, rachel, lily and the Defendant were already there. This is down in carver on the 16th, the day before. >> on the holiday. >> yes. What time do you recall arriving There and finding the family? >> around 11:00. >> and they spent the balance of The day until about 5:00 there? >> yes. >> now, if I could take you to Thursday, the 19th. Did you work that day? >> yes, I did. >> and did you have an occasion At some point in time to speak To rachel by telephone? >> yes. >> what time was that? >> she called me around 4:00. >> you were at work at the time? >> yes. >> did you have a conversation With her? >> yes. >> and did she mention anything In regards to the defendant's Plans for the next day? >> yes. We spoke of the interview -- >> objection. >> sustained. >> may I be heard, your honor? >> we will have a sidebar, Ladies and gentlemen. If you want to stand and Stretch, feel free to do so, but Please don't talk. >> that applies to all of you as Well. If you want to stand and stretch Go ahead and do so. We turn to another story we Covered this week. The bitter mcgreevey divorce Trial. The money phase ended this week, Both jim mcgreevey and his soon To be ex-wife must wait Patiently as the judge decides Whether the ex-governor should Have to pay his wife alimony for Their dissolved four-year Marriage. We wanted to know if you think Men should have to pay ail money To their ex-wives. Our "the best defense" crew went Out to get the word on the Street. >> I disagree. >> yes. >> if you have money, that's Yours. It doesn't matter if she was Your wife. >> definitely if there's kids Involved. For sure. >> yes, they definitely should Pay for alimony. >> it depends on if kids are Involved, yeah. Depends on the break-up. >> if the lady is breaking up, Why does the guy have to pay? >> I don't think it's an Absolute rule. It depends upon the earnings of Each partner and who was >>> welcome back to "the best Defense." This is ron kuby. Priscilla matterazzo narrating The events of January 21, 2006. Her daughter and grandchild had Been dead for a day but she Doesn't know it yet. She's beginning to think Something is very, very wrong. >> did you receive an answer to The door? >> no. >> did you ring the doorbell at All? >> I don't remember. >> what about the door? Did you try to see? >> I tried the door. >> what was the condition of the Door? >> was locked. >> could you see into the house At all? >> I couldn't see in the house, No. >> did you see or hear anything Inside the house? >> I could hear the dog barking. >> what did you do next? >> went around to the back of The house. We could look in the sliders. >> what did you see there? >> no one. It was the same as the last time I was there. >> was the slider locked or Unlocked? >> the slider was locked. >> what did you do next? >> went up the stairs going up To a screened in porch from the Sliders. I went up and tried that door. >> how did you find that door? >> that door was locked at the Top of the stairs. >> what, if anything, did you And your friend do next? >> we got back in the car and Tried calling the house. No answer. >> you weren't able to get Through to the house? >> no one answered the phone. No. >> did you leave a message or Just hang up? >> no, we left a message. >> and then what did you do? >> we waited longer. I called joe to see if he heard From rachel or neil. >> then what did you do? >> I -- I drove -- I left their House and drove around within Their neighborhood just to kill Time, just to -- and drove back To their house and parked in Front of the house. >> did teresa go with you during That drive and come back? >> yes. >> how much time did you spend Driving around? >> 10, 15 minutes. >> you stopped in front of the House again you said? >> yes. >> you waited for a period of Time? >> yes. I waited until about 2:30. >> what did you do after 2:30? >> I put a note on the door, Just asking if she had forgot Than we were coming. And just to call me. >> then what did you and your Friend do? >> we decided to go back and get Some lunch and wait to see if They came back and called us. >> did you get some lunch? We got some lunch at a little Pizza place off the highway. We stayed there about an hour. >> what did you do after that? >> it was about 3:30 at that Time. We figured even if they Returned, at that point we Wouldn't be able to visit much. So we called, while we were Having lunch. We called the house again to see If there was any answer. >> did you receive an answer? >> no. >> did you leaf a message? >> yes. >> what did you do after that? >> so we -- we called again Before we left the pizza place, There still wasn't an answer. So we decided to head home. >> what time did you leave Hopkinton for carver? >> 3:30. >> what time did you get back Down to carver? >> about 4:30. And when you arrived home, was Joe at home or anybody else at Home? >> joe and his son anthony were At home. >> where wheere they in the hou? >> the basement family room. >> did you go down to that Family room. >> yes, terry and I went down. >> what if anything did you see Joe and anthony doing? >> they were cleaning guns. >> did you have an occasion at All during that day, while you Were back at carver, to receive Any phone calls from either the Defendant or rachel? >> no. >> about 7:30 that evening, did You receive a phone call from Someone? >> I received a phone call from Rachel's friend, joanna gately. >> did you have a conversation With joanna gately for a period Of time? >> yes. >> and did you end that Conversation at some point? >> yes. >> what did you do next? >> I called hopkinton police. >> and did ask you them to do Something? >> I asked -- I explained that i Was concerned because my Daughter wasn't at home, where She said she would be that day And had not answered the phone All day and also wasn't there For another engagement with her Friend. And that she always f she made Plans, she was always there. And I asked if they could go in The house and see if everything Was okay. >> did you end that phone Conversation with the hopkinton Police department? >> yes. After a period of time, did you Receive a call from anyone else? That evening. >> the hopkinton police called Me back. >> did you speak with them for a Period of time? >> yes. >> did you remain at home the Balance of that evening? >> yes. >> any contact from the Defendant or from rachel the Balance of that evening, january 21, 2006? >> no. >> what time did you get up the Next morning? >> about 6:30. >> and your husband, joe and you Spent the night in carver, Saturday night into Sunday? >> yes. >> did you then decide do Something that Sunday morning? >> yes. >> what did you decide to do? >> I spoke with joanna -- >> you had a conversation with Joanna? >> um-hum. >> as a result of that Conversation did you go Someplace? >> yes. >> where did you go. >> we went to hopkin ton? >> who went to hopkinton? >> joe and myself. >> when you got there, who did You meet? >> joanna and her sister maureen Were there. >> did anybody else arrive after Your arrival? >> yes, later in the afternoon. >> what time did you get there? >> around noon, 12:00, 12:30. >> the other people later in the Afternoon what time did they Arrive? >> they were later. Maybe around 3:00. >> what if anything did you do While you were there? >> we mostly waited outside the House. >> did you go inside the house At all? >> no. >> did your husband joe go Inside the house? >> no. >> do you know if anybody else Was in the house? >> yes. Who was in the house? >> joanna and her sister Maureen. >> at some point in time did They leave the house? >> yes. >> what, if anything, did you And joe and the others that Arrived there that afternoon do Next? >> the other people that arrived Was my girlfriend teresa pratt And her family. They were concerned that the car May have -- >> if you could listen to the Question and just answer the Question that was asked. >> thank you, your honor. What did you do? You had conversation with ms. Pratt. >> yes. >> as result of those Conversations what did you and The others do, if anything? >> I stayed at the house. >> at the house. >> yes. >> were you in the house or Outside? >> outside the house. >> what did the others do? Did they leave or stay? >> they left and came back. >> how long were they gone? >> perhaps an hour. >> who left? >> teresa and her family. >> and what about joe? >> no. He stayed with me. >> he stayed in the car outside? >> yes. >> at some point in time teresa And their family, did they Arrive back there? >> yes. >> what happened next? You had further conversation With people? >> yes. >> as a result of those Conversations, what, if Anything, did you and joe and Joanne and maureen do? >> we went down to the hopkinton Police station. >> and when you got to the Station what time was that? >> it was around 5:30. >> what was your reason for Going there? >> to file a missing persons Report. >> on who or whom? >> on neil, rachel and lillian. >> did you meet with one or more Police officers? Do you recall who you met with, If you can recall the names? >> I don't recall the names, Nomt. >> did you spend a period of Time there? >> yes. >> how much time did you spend There? >> about seven hours. >> at some point in time, did You meet with the chief of the Hopkinton police? >> yes. >> did you learn some Information concerning rachel And lillian entwistle? >> yes. >> and you were with your Husband at that point in time? >> yes. >> when you learned that Information, what was your Demeanor? Your demeanor. >> I was shocked and upset. >> and what about your husband, Joe? >> he -- he was shocked, upset. >> was joanna there with you as Well and maureen? >> yes. >> do you recall what time -- Strike that. Did anybody else from your Family arrive at the station That evening, the 22nd into the 23rd? >> yes. >> who arrived? >> joe's son michael. >> what time did he arrive? >> I don't recall. >> what time did you and your Husband, joe, joanna and Everybody eventually leave the Hopkinton police station? >> about 1:00 a.M. >> where did you go? >> back to my house in carver. >> did you spend the day, the 23rd, Monday the 23rd at your Home in carver? >> yes. >> who else was home with you? >> several people had come in. >> did you spend some time Making some phone calls? >> yes. >> who arrived at your home over The course of the day? >> family members, joanna had Stayed with us that night. It was my brothers and sisters. >> do you recall -- excuse me -- At some point in time meeting With one or more police officers That day or the days that Followed, the 23rd of January? >> yes. >> and where did you meet with Them? >> at my house. >> when did the police arrive There? If you remember. If you recall whether it was Monday, Tuesday, later that Week. >> it was Monday or Tuesday. It was early on in the week. >> when they arrived what did They do? >> they had to -- >> did they speak to you? Don't tell us the substance. >> yes. >> did they speak to joe? >> yes. >> whether or not they were Allowed to look around the House? >> they did look around the House. >> what f anything, did they do Or remove from the house? >> they removed all of joe's Guns from the house. >> did they go up in the office? >> yes, they did. >> what, if anything, did they Do up there? >> they removed my computer. >> do you recall at some point In time later that week or the Days that followed meeting with The police again and providing Them with something? Did you give them fingerprints At some point in time, ma'am? >> yes. >> did you give them any other Samples? >> yes, the swabs. >> was a swab in your cheek? >> yes. >> do you remember when that Happened? >> wasn't the first week. It was early in the following Week. >> then were arrangements Eventually made regarding the Dispositions of the body of Richal and lillian entwistle? >> yes. >> what arrangements were made? >> funeral arrangements were Made on January 26th. We couldn't make definite Arrangements until the bodies Were released from the medical Examiner. >> was that release eventually Made? >> yes. >> what arrangements did you and Your husband then make? >> we made arrangements for the Burial on February 1st. >> was a wake service also held? >> a wake was held on January 31st. >> and I take it you attended The services, the wake and the Funeral? >> yes, I did. >> did you see the defendant There at any point in time During the wake? >> no I did not. >> did you see the defendant There at any point in time During the funeral on February 1st? >> no. >> any point in thyme from the Evening of January 22, 2006, Subpoenaed, up until the funeral Services, did you have an Occasion to speak to the Defendant at all? >> no I didn't. >> if I could just have a Moment, your honor. >> with this break, we will take A short break. Pay a few bills. We'll be right back as "the best >>> welcome back to "the best Defense." Direct examination of ms. Matterazzo has finished. Cross examination has begun. Thus far the attorney conducting The cross examination, merely Trying to establish that the Relationship between neil and His wife seemed to be a happy One. Let's go back inside the Courtroom and listen. Before she brought neil over Here to meet you? >> no. >> and you had seen, before Rachel and neil had gotten Married, you had seen and met Neil a couple of times, isn't That right? >> before they were married? A couple of times. >> one, you had said, was the Bridal show theer that happenedt Year? >> yes. And one of the christmas' she Brought him over? >> yes. >> when rachel brought neil over To visit, that was a time -- was Christmas the first time? >> yes. >> was a time when you had all Your family and rachel's family And friends around, isn't that Right? >> right. It was a big social gathering Over the holidays, correct? >> on that specific christmas? >> yes. >> on christmas day, no. We didn't have that many people In. No. >> but did you have occasion and Rachel had occasion to introduce Neil to the family s that right? >> to some of the family that Was available. >> and to her friends that were Still around, is that correct? >> I don't know if she at that Time met any friends that were There. I don't remember. >> every visit that you had when Rachel had brought neil home They were always pleasant Visits, isn't that right? >> yes. >> and they seemed to genuinely Love each other, isn't that Right? >> mm-hmm. >> and he would be -- would you Agree that his demeanor was Sometimes a little reserved or Shy when he was in big groups? >> I wouldn't say shy. >> reserved? >> maybe a little reserved Because he didn't know the People yet. >> and he would often be the Only one in the group that would Not know who everybody else was When rachel was introducing him Around, isn't that correct? >> yes. He wouldn't have had any other Opportunity to meet her friends Or family. >> he would be the stranger in The group? >> yes. >> rachel would try to -- Everybody would try to make him Feel comfortable and get to know Everyone. Isn't that right? >> correct. >> when you were talking about When you and joe had gotten Married and the two different Families, you said y'all did Take time to try to get to know Each other, isn't that right? >> yes. >> so that joe could try to get To know rachel, because she was Going to be part of his family, Isn't that right? >> right. >> again it was a little harder With rachel because she wasn't Living anywhere near you, isn't That correct? >> I don't understand the Question. >> it was harder because you Weren't able to see her every Day or she wasn't able to visit Every day or living in your House during that initial time When the families are trying to Get to know each other. >> right. >> okay. Now when rachel was over in England and with neil, they had Set up a website, isn't that Correct? >> a personal website. >> personal website. >> personal website. That was so that you all could Come in, especially after Lillian was born, they could Keep you posted about what they Were doing and put pictures up There every day, isn't that Right? >> yes. >> as you told us, especially After the baby was born that was Something would check every day To see what was posted, isn't That right? >> we would often check it. >> and neil and raching, before The baby was born, had put Photographs up there if they had Gone on vacation, to keep family And friends, let them know what Was going on, isn't that right? >> yes. >> and any sort of -- if there Was a holiday or anything Special they did, they would Post it up on the website so you Could go in and share that Experience with them, isn't that Correct? >> right. >> particularly after lily was Born, they were updating that, Both neil and rachel were Updating and keeping that site Current with regards to lily's Development, isn't that right? >> as much as they could with a Young infant. >> and having a young infant Kept rachel pretty busy during That time, isn't that correct? >> yes. >> and at the time -- after lily Was born, neil was an active Participant in helping to raise Lily, isn't that correct? >> yes, he was. >> when they got married, neil And his -- neil's family came Over here for the wedding, isn't That right? >> yes. >> a number of rachel and neil's Friends came over from the United kingdom, isn't that Correct? >> two or three did. >> they were very close friends To rachel and neil as far as cue Tell, isn't that right? >> yes. >> and if I told you -- do you Remember what their names were? Leann and andy? Do you remember those people? >> yes. >> and then there was victoria, June, amy. Do you remember that? >> no. >> in terms of leann and andy, They became like family to you, Isn't that right? An extended part of the family? >> not to me, no. >> all right. You did know from rachel, Though, that leann was a very, Very close friend of rachel and Neil Neil's, isn't that correct? >> not as close as other Friends. >> but you did know from rachel And neil that they had a good Network of close friends back in The united kingdom, isn't that Correct? >> yes, they had friends. >> in fact, when neil -- when Rachel came over and lillian Came over to stay with you in 2005, neil had stayed behind With some -- with leann and Andy. They put him up while he was Closing up the house out there, Wasn't that correct? >> for part of the time that he Was still there, yes. >> all right. When you went to visit neil -- Rachel and neil and lillian, Joanna gately was over there During part of that time, isn't That correct? >> over where? >> when you went over to visit Rachel and neil after lillian Was born. >> yes. That was also a very good visit, Isn't that correct? >> yes. >> and neil at the time -- is it Fair to say you spent most of Your time with rachel and Lillian. >> the greater portion of the Time. >> neil would go out to work Every day and then come back. Isn't that correct? >> he was home for some of the Time. But he worked some of the time i Was there also. >> it was, as you said, a very Pleasant time when you went to See rachel, neil and lillian, Isn't that right? >> yes. >> it was at that time that Rachel and neil started talking About moving back to the united States, isn't that correct? >> yes. >> and relocating? >> mm-hmm. >> would you also n keeping in Touch with rachel, would you Also use the e-mail? E-mail to talk to rachel and Neil? >> not usually. >> would you call them and use a Calling card? >> no. Just use the house phone. >> okay. >> how often would you say you Talked -- you spoke with rachel During that period? Once a week? More than that? >> probably at least two, three Times. >> a week? >> yes. >> okay. Now, you told us that neil's Work in the field of computer Engineering, isn't that correct? >> yes. >> and that you couldn't recall The company that neil worked For, but if I told you that it Was kinetic, would that sound Right? >> yes. >> it's true that you didn't Know too much about the type of Work that neil did as a computer Engineer atkin nettic, isn't That right? >> no, I did not know. >> he didn't talk much about it, Isn't that correct? >> no he didn't. >> you have no idea whether that Was a company that dealt with Government contracts like Ratheon does over here, right? >> he had mentioned there were Government contracts with with His company. >> you also told you that rachel And neil, one of the reasons They wanted to come here, was Because there maying better job Opportunities for neil in the Computer engineering field, is That right? >> yes. >> coming here, they were Basically coming here to start a Brand new life together with Lillian, isn't that right? >> yes. >> they were obviously leaving Their jobs in England, right? >> yes. >> they were leaving their close Friends in England, isn't that Correct? >> yes. >> you know, their house or Apartment was very nice over There, isn't that right? >> it was modest. >> but it was their family home, Isn't that right? >> yes. >> they also had an automobile Over in England? >> yes. >> for all intents and purposes They had a very nice life at That time over in England, isn't That correct? >> yes. >> when -- as you told us, Rachel came here first without Neil. She came with lillian to stay With you, isn't that right? >> yes. >> of course you opened up your House as you just told us with Your bedroom to tell them they Could stay there as long as they Needed. >> yes. >> initially the transition was A little rough for rachel when Neil wasn't here? Remember that? That the first month or so was a Little hard? >> no. She was in her own home with her Family. >> I understand. When you were speaking to the Police and describing -- telling Them about your impressions About what was going on with Rachel and neil, you said they Didn't have many -- it didn't Seem like they had problems but It was a little stressful at the Beginning when rachel first came Over? >> just adjusting to new Environment and new routine. >> right. Nothing more than that. >> no. >> and she wasn't hear with her Close network of friends that She left in England, isn't that Right? >> not her english friends, no. >> she also didn't have her own Car when she first got over Here, isn't that correct? >> not when she first arrived With that "the best defense" Will rest for the day. It's time to check in with jack Ford for a look at what's coming Up next on "banfield and ford: Courtside." >> we will continue what you are Doing. We will follow up with the Testimony, the first witness on The stand. The prosecution starting to Portray its case here. Hopefully going to get some Answers to a lot of the Questions that are surrounding This case. Answers from the prosecution Side, answers from the defense Side and more of the witnesses. >> thank you, jack. We'll see you in a few minutes. First a big thanks to my guest, Jeff mandel and dr. Buzz Onsteener. I hope to see you soon. Rikki klieman will be filling in Next week and then I'll be back. |